Mirror images

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 95701

Kneasy wrote:
> That Mirror. Most fans think it lies, after all didn't DD say that 
> "This mirror will  give us  neither knowledge or truth. Men have 
> wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been 
> driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible." 
<snip> It shows desires, says so on the label....
<snip> If, as advertised, it shows you what you want, how can this be 
> a lie? 


Siriusly Snapey Susan:
I don't think the mirror DOES lie.  I guess that puts me in the 
minority of fans, then?  I think it truly does show your deepest 
desires, not truth.  And if that's what it does, then I don't see how 
the issue of lying would even come in.


Kneasy:
> Suppose for example he had  wanted to know what had happened to his 
> parents? Oops! what a can of worms that might have opened.

Siriusly Snapey Susan:
Sure, let's take this as a hypothetical.  I can see where Harry MIGHT 
have had the desire to know this, yes.  Again, though, who says the 
mirror will or must show him the truth?  In fact, DD warns him it 
WON'T necessarily show him the truth.  [Maybe that's your point--that 
DD *told* him that, but DD was lying?]  Since *I'm* taking the mirror 
as truly being as described, I think it might show Harry some 
manifestation of his DESIRE for what happened to Lily & James--it 
might show him an incomplete picture of that night, or it might show 
him that they didn't suffer much.  In other words, if he DESIRES 
desperately to know what happened to them...and if he also DESIRES 
desperately to find out that they didn't suffer...maybe the mirror 
would show that they didn't.  But would it be the truth?  Would the 
details be right?  Probably not.  And Harry would be a fool to 
believe it's the truth or to have his sorrow & guilt assuaged because 
of it.  This is NOT the place to find out the truth!  


Kneasy:
> OK, all well and good. But Harry has learned something important 
> that he would not otherwise have known - he's learned what the 
> mirror is and what it does.
> Fast forward to the climax of the book. Harry is in the clutches of 
> the Turbaned Terror, who's throwing a wobbler because he can't find 
> the Stone. Why on earth should he think that Harry knows how to 
> find it? Why put Harry in front of the mirror? And why would 
> Harry's most fervent desire be to find the Stone? Much more likely 
> that it would be "Help! Get me out of here!"


Siriusly Snapey Susan:
I think what happens at the climax of the book shows that Harry *did* 
learn, from his experience w/ the mirror & from DD's words, exactly 
what the mirror does.  You don't always think especially highly of 
Harry, Kneasy, but I think DD believes [might I go so far as to say 
understands?] that Harry's heart is truly w/ stopping "Snape" [really 
Quirrell] & Voldy.  DD believes that at that climactic moment Harry's 
deepest desire WILL be to stop them...and he's proven right.


Kneasy:
> "I'm glad you asked me that. It was one of my more brilliant ideas, 
> and between you and me, that's saying something. You see, only one 
> who wanted to *find* the Stone - find it, but not use it - would be 
> able to get it, otherwise they'd just see themselves making gold or 
> drinking Elixir of Life.  But no more questions."
> 
> Pause a moment, wasn't that what Quirrell was up to? Finding the 
> Stone?  He had no intention of using it - "I see the Stone...I'm 
> presenting it to my master...but where is it?"
 

KAT/rxk replied in #95664:
> But Quirrel DID want the stone to use it to benefit himself-by 
> giving it to LV, he expected to be greatly rewarded; perhaps 
> through the riches it might create or even some of the elixer. 
> Hence, his motives would not be "pure", whereas Harry's were to 
> keep the Stone safe.


Siriusly Snapey Susan:
I think Kat is exactly right.  Harry's & Quirrell's intentions were 
quite different.  


Kneasy:
> Consider the protective gauntlet that had been cobbled together by 
> the staff. Not exactly fearsome, is it? Nothing a smart wizard 
> couldn't cope with, as Quirrell proved. After all, if three 11 year 
> old untrained students can do it...


Siriusly Snapey Susan:
I think you're absolutely right, Kneasy.  In fact, I think the whole 
thing was set up to TEST Harry...well, *and* to catch someone 
seriously after the Stone w/ that LAST PROTECTION.  DD is still 
getting to know Harry.  As I said above, he has correctly guessed 
that Harry has the kind of heart & bravery & character that will put 
himself [and others!!] at risk in order to fight Voldy & the Bad 
Guys.  I think this whole school year was a series of tasks & 
situations either arranged or allowed by DD in order to find this out 
about Harry...as well as to build his confidence & advance his 
repertoire of skills.  After all, that LAST PROTECTION *would* stop 
any bad guy from getting the Stone for selfish reasons, so why not 
set up the rest to test & strengthen Harry?

Siriusly Snapey Susan