Lily's sacrifice may not be what we think it is... (very long)

[arielock2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 95751

The Sergeant Majorette said:
 "I think that works for me. "Love is the answer" as a theory 
makes me more than faintly queasy. Karma, though, I can deal 
with, if we can give the concept a more British name. Maybe work 
in a phrase like "reap what you sow," or "beauty is as beauty 
does" delivered in Gran Longbottom's stern voice..."

Arianna replies:
Hi Sergeant!  Fair enough, could we call it "justice" or "truth?"   
The idea of it just being "love" makes me a little nauseous, too.  
Besides, I would be shocked if the Malfoys didn't all truly love 
each other.  Just because they are nasty, evil racists doesn't 
mean that they don't care about each other...  


rubykelly at webtv.net wrote:
"It's an interesting idea-but the main problem with it (IMO) is that 
any "experimental charm" by Lily doesn't account for the "ancient 
magic" LV forgot, which was referred to by DD."

Arianna responds:
	The theory works if the nature of the experimental charm was 
this force I am calling Karma (for lack of a better word).  Please 
see post 95651 where I proposed that it IS the ancient magic 
hated by Voldemort.


Maddy writes:
"I don't think that Dumbledore or Lily knew about or thought of the 
magic that saved Harry, nor do I think they planned what 
happened. Rather, I think that merely the act of dying as she did, 
trying to save her son, is supposed to be what protected Harry."

Arianna responds:
	That would be even more confusing.  Then it makes absolutely 
no sense at all why she would DEMAND to be killed.   If  she 
actually had *no plan*, then her *best bet* to protect Harry would 
have been to stay alive and fight as long as possible.   It seems 
that she seems to realize this.  At first she does say, "Please, I'll 
do anything"  (PoA Amer paperback 239).  If he had just killed her 
because she refused to move, I would agree with you 
completely.  It is the fact that she *demanded* that he cast an AK 
on her that tells me  she had to have had a plan.  What did she 
think would happen after she was killed *if she had no plan* and 
didn't try to cast some spell?  Voldemort would just kill Harry, and 
she would be too dead to stop him.

Very much like the reverse wand effect, I think we are seeing 
things in the reverse order that they happened.   I believe that if 
we look at Harry's memories  (from PoA when encountering 
dementors or boggarts) in reverse, we can see the order of the 
events.
1) Some male (possibly James) tells Lily to take Harry and run.  
(Amer paperback 240).
2) Lily says, "Not Harry! Please, I'll do anything"  (Amer 
paperback 
239). 
3) Lily says, "Not Harry! Kill me instead!"  (Amer paperback 179).

I think somewhere between 2 and 3 above it occurred to her to try 
what ever spell she used.

Maddy continued:
"But if that's true, why, as you put it, wasn't Lily the Woman Who 
Lived? You would think that James died trying to save his wife 
and child as well? Why didn't that save both Lily and Harry?"

Arianna replies:
I don't think you read my post as I intended:  I am saying 
EXACTLY what you just said, we agree on that point.   James 
died in the hope that it might give Lily enough time to escape 
with Harry.   Pure, selfless love.   If  "love" alone was the reason,
 
it *would* have saved both Lily and Harry.   No, Lily actively did 
something, and I believe it was a spell she cast on herself, as a 
spell on Harry would have put his life in danger.

Arianna (please know that if any of this comes off as mean, I 
really am sorry.  ;-)  I'm just passionate about this theory [post 
95652], as it is the only way Lily's demand to be murdered 
makes sense to me.  My loved ones tease me that I am 
obsessed with Harry Potter.  I'm not, I'm obsessed with what 
happened when Lily died.)