Sirius and Gringotts - the Two Basic Facts

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 96229

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at m...>
wrote:
> x> Carol:
> > I think it's a lot simpler. Admittedly, the Gringotts goblins go
> > to great lengths to protect their gold and other valuables- 
> >...--but the protections are to prevent it from getting into the 
> > hands of anyone other than the rightful owner, .... All they needed 
> > to take gold from the vault was Sirius's signature (...) and the key
> > to the vault, which Crookshanks presumably had in an envelope along 
> > with the signed request for the gold.
> > 

> 
> Potioncat:
> Here's a thought I've wondered about.  If Serius could get gold out 
> of Gringotts with just his signature, why didn't he get it out while 
> he was in the tropics?  When Harry sees him again, (GoF) he's still 
> wearing the robes from Azkaban.

bboy_mn:

Let's not let our enthusiasm cause us to stray too far from the facts.
For reference, here is what Sirius said about the broom purchase...

---PoA Am PB Pg 433---
"... Crookshanks took the order to the Owl (Post) Office for me. I
used **YOUR** (Harry's) name but told them to take the gold from MY
OWN Gringotts vault. ..."
---end quote---

I read that to mean that the money was removed from Sirius's
*numbered* Vault using Harry's name, and by 'Harry's name', I'm
assuming that means Harry's authorization. 

I can only speculate, but I don't get the sense that Sirius is
mentioned by name on this order form. Extending that speculation, we
must then determine how Harry's name can be used to remove money from
Sirius's vault. In response to that dilemma, I point out that Molly
can remove money from Harry's account and has done so more than once,
and I don't recall a mention of a vault key being given to Molly at
these times.

So, my first thought is that the Goblins have some magical way of
determining the legitimacy of a requested transaction. They are able
to determine that Molly is truly acting on Harry's behalf, and that
her request for funds from his account is legitimate. The same with
the request in Harry's name to withdraw funds from Sirius's numbered
vault. (Can anybody remember what that vault number is, and where it
appears in the book?)

The next point is that to facilitate the withdrawal, Harry might have
some authority on Sirius's account. Maybe being a Godson, gives him an
allowable access to the account of his Godfather. 

Other's have speculated that, at some point, Sirius made a declaration
to the bank that gave Harry status for that account. You can do this
with credit cards, you can tell the bank/credit card company that
such-and-such a person is authorized to sign for purchases made
against that credit card. Also, my mother just recently added my name
to her savings and checking accounts, so this is not unheard of.

Regardless of the many speculations, we have two basic facts; first,
the order was placed in Harry's name, and second, the order requested
the money to be withdrawn from Sirius's numbered vault. 

We can assume the order form was signed, but it's difficult to
determine if it was signed with Harry's name or Sirius's name. Given
that the order was made in Harry's name, his signature written by
Sirius's hand would seem the most likely.

Personally, I'm stick with my 'Goblin magic' idea.

bboy_mn