[HPforGrownups] Re: Acceptable Abuses?

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 96259

On 18 Apr 2004 at 1:22, dumbledore11214 wrote:

> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...> 
> wrote:
> > This could explain why at the end of OotP, the Order feels it can 
> > confront the Dursleys - because in that book, Petunia has asserted 
> > herself, she's made it clear that *she* decides if Harry stays or 
> > goes. Even if Vernon wants to kick Harry out, she has shown she 
> > will block that. So that risk has diminished. Vernon no longer 
> > needs to be placated.
> > 
> > I also think that despite her very obvious faults, it's possible 
> > that Petunia realises that Harry *saved* Dudley from the Dementors. 
> > She obviously knows a bit about what is going on - for all her 
> > faults, and they are many, Petunia does seem to love her son - 
> > often in ways that aren't particularly good for him. I think Harry, 
> > in standing up to the Dementors has brought himself a little bit of 
> > credit in her eyes.
> > 
> > Speculation, of course - but it seems to me that Petunia may have 
> > an insight into what it is like to be a muggle relative of a wizard 
> > or witch, in a world where Voldemort is at large. She may have 
> > understandings that this could be dangerous for some reason.
> > 
> > I often wondered - and this is total speculation - if Petunia's 
> > attitudes are born of guilt. I wonder at her relationship with 
> > Lilly - what was it really like? I wonder if she cut off her 
> > relationship with her sister, mostly because Vernon wanted her to - 
> > if he's the real bigot, and she became such to be with him. And 
> > that denied her contact with her sister before she died. And that 
> > could lead to a lot of guilt - and that could explain why she took 
> > Harry in - but also could lead to considerable resentment of him - 
> > because everytime she looks at him, she is reminded of the sister 
> > she lost.
> > 
> > Speculation - but I do wonder.
> > 
> > 
> Hi, Shaun!
> 
> Here is hoping that this time my reply will not dissappear. I find 
> you reasons to be quite interesting if we were to look for 
> reasons "within the story".
> 
> So, are you saying that earlier in Harry's life Vernon run the show 
> adn Dumbledore was not about to risk the possibility that Harry will 
> be thrown out, if he interferes? Do you think that situation changed 
> so drastically at the end of the OOP that Vernon is no longer "the 
> man of the household"?

I'm inclined to believe that Vernon has always believed he runs the 
show - but that it very possibly wasn't ever true. Vernon seems to 
be a very traditional type of fellow - he probably seriously 
believes he's 'head of the house'. While this may not be true, for 
the sake of domestic harmony, Petunia may generally allow him to 
feel that way unless there's an important point to be made. If the 
issue is important enough, she will stand her ground and she will 
make her view stick - but generally speaking, maybe she doesn't 
bother.
 
> I mean sure, Petunia insisted that Harry will stay, but do you think 
> that she did not do so earlier? As you quoted Petunia took the boy 
> in "grudgingly, etc, but she took him" 

Yes, I think she did - but while there may well have been an 
argument about taking Harry in 15 years ago, and Petunia may have 
prevailed on that occasion, it's clear at the start of Order of the 
Phoenix that Vernon feels he's responsible for the decision. I'm 
fairly sure Petunia had to convince him initially - but I'm also 
inclined to believe that Vernon now believes he made the decision. 
I don't think Petunia has stood up to him on this issue for 15 
years - because she hasn't had to. He's never actually tried to 
throw Harry out before.
 
> If it is so, then Dumbledore already knows that Petunia did not threw 
> the boy out fifteen years ago, so I guess I am still searching for 
> answer to the question "why did not he interfere?"

Oh yes, Dumbledore knows Petunia accepted him - but just because 
Petunia is fully capable of standing up to her husband, doesn't 
mean you want to force the issue too often. Thinking back to 
Philosopher's Stone - when the owls start arriving and Vernon 
basically goes mad - it seems to me that Vernon isn't an easy man 
to stand up to - while he may not actually be an abusive husband, 
he seems the type of man for whom a violent response could come 
easily. Even if Petunia can and does stand up to him when it's 
important enough for her to do so, doesn't mean you want to rely on 
him.

And there is a big difference between showing you are willing to 
take in a helpless infant who has no other relatives to care for 
him and give him basic care, even in the face of opposition from 
your husband - and being willing to continue to harbor a 15 year 
old boy whose presence in your home is a possible threat to your 
safety and that of your own child and husband, and who you have 
some reason to believe *would* have somewhere else to go - Petunia 
knows Harry has friends and knows he has been able to get to them 
in the past when he's had to leave the home (in Chamber of Secrets, 
and in Prisoner of Azkaban) - she's not dealing with the same 
situation.

By the end of Order of the Phoenix, Petunia has shown she is 
willing to go further to protect Harry than Dumbledore could have 
judged based on the mere fact she took him in as an infant.

He knows, she will stand up to her husband, even in the face of 
danger, even knowing Harry is not entirely reliant on her.

It's a different situation - and one in which the Order can push 
things further.  



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia