[HPforGrownups] Re: Offered Theory

[Silverthorne]

No: HPFGUIDX 96731


{Pippin}
Nonetheless this is an interesting theory. I now understand the
conflict in our ideas about vampires a little better.       If you see
the vampire, especially the modern, charismatic vampire, as a
metaphor for the ascendancy of the spiritual and moral life  over
the physical and material, however rich and prolonged, I agree
that has little to do with Severus Snape. I also see that if Snape
is considered to be naturally  inferior to Harry, then the struggle
that each has to make the other see him as an individual worthy
of respect would not end as we Snape fans would wish.

But things which we think are only  metaphors turn out to be real
in the Potterverse. *Snip*

{Silverthorne}
Actaully, Sirius 'dealing' would have more to do with his already
questionable traits that he had *before* being a vamp--not him being a vamp
as a metaphor (which is actaully the impressions I got from *your* posts
insisting Snape was one...or at least that if Snape was a Vampire- then that
would explain away all his 'faults' as a human being...) Seems we're both
misunderstanding each other's stance a little...lol!

Also, I don't see Snape as 'inferior' to anyone--but I do see him set in his
ways. Which is why I always cheer him on when he does something as
infinitessimal as report Harry's going off the the MoM as soon as he was
able to...for him, taking Harry at least seriously enough to realize
something really was wrong, to *check* on it (with Sirius himself, no less),
and then *act* on it...that was mind blowing for the man to do, especially
if you beleive that he ahs no respect *or* love for Harry at all...why waste
the time to take the kid seriously? Why stretch yourself to 'save' his
silly, idiot hide (According to Snape's thought process)? After all, Snape
is only one man, tryng to keep up with the WW's Savior--accidents can happen
easily enough where Snape just cannot get there in time...

Snape is not inferior...but he is a nasty piece of work. What marks him as
different from the DE he abandoned, IMHO, is that although he *is* a nasty
piece or work, he still has a high morality. He works for the 'good guys',
and did so even before he was sure that there was something other than one
be-turbaned nut case to worry about. And even though he has an acid
tongue--all he *does* is 'bark' at Harry and co. He has yet to *bite*, even
when he has threatened to do so...even when it is against an almost
life-long enemy like Sirius....even when he would be justified in it because
at the time Sirius was 'known' to be a murdering criminal. If Snape was any
less 'moral', Sirius and Lupin would be dead, DD already betrayed, and Harry
treated to that god-awful evil pen a lot sooner than when Umbridge came on
the scene (and worse things would likely have followed).

{Pippin}
Potterverse vampires must exist
independently of  real life, Muggle and wizarding myth.  How
would *they* feel about  the idea that they were  spiritually and
morally inferior to humans? Wouldn't they resent being regarded
as metaphors? Especially if some of the things that make them
such dandy metaphors weren't even true? Even if their appetites
were  bloodthirsty and their culture predatory,   wouldn't JKR ask
us to judge them by their choices, far more than anything else?

{Silverthorne}
I would imagine so--after all, it's a theme she introduces already with
Werewolves and other non-human types in the WW. Everyone (everyone being the
human wizards and witches who are taught these things from the time they can
walk) knows Werewolves are dangerous and deadly, that Giants cannot control
their tempers and are wholly distructive and anitsocial, that Centaurs are
'merely' intelligent beasts at best, that house elves are nothing mroe than
glorified servants meant only for taking care of their wizarding families
needs...

And then JKR promptly turns around and gives us...
Remus Lupin--a wholly kind and relatively stable gentleman (if a bit timid
and not good at standing up for himself or sometimes what he knows is right
because he wants to be liked), who, if you don't believe the ESE theory,
likely would not hurt a fly if he could help it.
Hagrid--half giant and all heart.
Ferenze, who not only is higly intelligent, but even breaks his own herd's
xenophobia to teach the children of the 'real beasts' of the magical world
(IE, the all knowing, all powerful, suppressing the other races wherever
they can, human wizards)...
And Dobby, who not only breaks all the expectations of a servile race, but
has quite a bit of magical power...

All of the races are 'metephors' in that sense...and also sterotyped...right
up until an individual of that race comes into contact with Harry's POV and
we get to see them for what they really are, and not what the WW world has
*said* they are all this time...

It's *also* why IF we had to have a vampire, I would choose someone else
over Snape as the 'victim'...if he were a Vampire, he would be a walking
talking metaphorically, tired out cliche...you look at him and go 'of COURSE
he's a Vampire!" Look at his skin, look at that dark hair and souless eyes,
look at the over abundance of black clothing and bad attitude. He might as
well have "I Am Dracula's Son" written all over his shirt...and that's the
problem. JKR has made a POINT in each non-human race of giving us the cliche
in a general way...but when you meet an Individual of that race...they blow
*at least* half the cliche all to hell. Where, in all of this, would Snape
'blow' the cliche? He wouldn't. And that's the problem. He breaks the very
point that Rowling is trying to make--that what we *think* we know, and what
we *do* know are two different things...especially when it comes to
'obvious' things like whose a Vampire, or werewolf, or giant, and how they
wouold act or look, or dress...

{Pippin}
It seems to me that could have lot to do with Snape as an ex-DE
and Head of Slytherin House, especially with the general feeling
that no Slytherin could possibly be the moral equal of a
Gryffindor. And what must be the corresponding feeling among
Slytherins that Gryffindors consider themselves morally superior
to everyone else.

{Silverthorne}
I'm not sure what this observation has to do with the vampire theory, but I
do agree that a lot of the 'bad blood' between Gryffs and Slyths in general,
and notable individulas in particular, stem from the same sort of
stereotyping...and it's obviously rampant in the WW world--from Hagrid and
Ron's comments about 'Bad Slyths" to Malfoy's and Snape's comments about
'Stupid Gryffs'...and yet, at the base of it, all of the ones involved have
*very* similar ways of dealing with situations (well, I think we can leave
The Incredible Fleeing Draco out of this observation--he's a coward, no
doubt about it.). a LOT of the problems in the WW seems to stem from folks
sterotyping things, and is one of the 'social flaws', right along with the
appearent attitude that the general WW attitude is that they are the
'superior beings'. The in-house (and cross-school) rivalries are rather like
a mini-version of this attitude...and it does indeed seem to be very
pervasive....

Anyway, my suggestion that Sirius return as a Vampire is based on trying to
find a good theoretical way *for* him to return without pulling the
'Surprise! I didn't really die!' stunt, to satisfy the reasoning behind why
a lot of the readers are expecting a vampire to turn up at some point, and
to avoid the *obvious* candidates without straying too terribly far from the
Vampire myth (and thus preserve JKR's habit of altering but not totally
changing the traits of the mythic critters she's introduced so far). I am
NOT suggesting that he'd be evil, might be loosing the fight and gouing evil
because of the vampirism, or that I want him to be a bad guy...I just think
it would be interesting...and even more so if, like Dobby, Hagrid, Remus and
Ferenze, he managed to 'break the mold' in regards to the general public's
idea of what a Vampire really is...

Snape could *never* pull that one off...not with his reputation...;)

Anne/Silverthorne