The names in the Goblet (Was: DD: an appreciation)

[caesian]

No: HPFGUIDX 96763

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> > Carol responds:
> > I think that the first and last sentences you quoted are specifically
> > intended to instruct the students who want to participate and have no
> > direct bearing on the magical contract itself. The important sentence
> > is the middle one: "The placing of your name in the Goblet constitutes
> > a binding, magical contract." Note the vagueness of the wording: "the
> > placing of your name," not "placing your name." In other words, it
> > doesn't matter *who* places the name, it's the *act* of placing it
> > that matters. Once the name is in the Goblet, it doesn't matter how it
> > got there (or whether a confundus charm was used to keep the Goblet
> > from spitting out an entry from a real or imaginary fourth school). So
> > Dumbledore is right--there's no escaping the contract and Harry has no
> > choice to participate.
> >
> 
> This construction would mean that no-one need put their own name in.
> Gred and Forge and Dean could have entered if Angelina Johnson had
> put their names in. Karkaroff and Madam Maxime could have entered 
> their entire contingents instead of having them line up and do it one by
> one. 
> There would  be no control whatsoever over who entered. The age
> line would be redundant, meaningless. The Goblet does not discriminate
> by age, that's why the line is there. Snape could have entered Neville!
> A contract is an agreement between two parties, not what happened here.
> Sorry, I don't buy this one.
> 
> Kneasy

This is a valid objection by Kneasy, but I think it is clear that the Tri-Wizard Tournament 
has a long history prior to the age-restriction being in place.  The Goblet of Fire is a 
powerful magical object created for a certain purpose centuries ago, and not subject to 
simple modification - perhaps even by the likes of Dumbledore (for example, perhaps it 
cannot be re-lit until the beginning of the next tournament).  I know, Confundus Charm.  
But that's to break it, not to get it to work in another way.

We also do not *know* that an average older student could enter the name of another 
person.  Although Dumbledore clearly asks Harry about this, that does not indicate that he 
thinks it is the likely explanation, any more than he believes he made an error with his 
age-line.  The question may have been to clarify things for others in the room. (Like me.)

I have to go with Dumbledore on this one, because, to paraphrase Hermione, if you can't 
trust him then who can you trust?  I believe the contract is binding.  And from the writers 
perspective, can anyone think of a better solution than the binding contract explanation?    
This is (albeit highly-believable) Fantasy afterall - if she says it's binding, who are we to 
argue?  I don't hear gripping about the realistic chances of portkeys, for example.

This particular debate falls into an interesting grey area between what is logical in the 
Potterverse, and what difficulties present themselves to our multitalented authoress.  Her 
dilemas with this tournament are manifold.  What if there had been no safety-related age-
restriction.  Would Harry have entered himself?  Would he, a 4th year, have been chosen 
over every other student in the story?  (The advantage of restricting the pool of applicants 
to older students is clear - we hardly know them, and are not invested in them at the 
beginning of the book.)  There are enormous problems with the unrestricted scenario, not 
least that he would be prematurely and conclusively raised above other key characters who 
have many admirable talents Harry has not yet displayed.  Harry was (and is) still in a 
period of alchemical transformation (having just been chared again, but good, in OotP), 
and he may not be ready for this.  What if Cedric had been chosen over him?  What about 
Neville?  The bad possibilities, story wise, are endless.

But, obviously, he needs to be in the tournament, and it seems out of character for him to 
enter by cheating for personal glory or willingly participate when he's not even thinking of 
winning (other than as a way to intervene in a crisis).  It also nicely sets up further abuse 
of Harry in the public eye, and by Ron, which is clearly necessary for plot and character 
development.  All in all, I think it's a close-to perfect solution.