The Problem with Lupin (long) was Re: How Close Are Harry and Lupin?

[khilari2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 96887

Some of this is fair enough, but for some I'm going to argue.

Pippin wrote:

> You know, in real life there'd be something fishy about a 
thirtyfive 
> year old man who's always the victim of circumstances. Maybe 
> life handed him the shovel, but you'd have to wonder who dug 
> the hole.
> 
> You'd have to wonder about somebody who says he felt guilty, 
> but didn't change his ways. Lupin's fans say his guilt is 
> needless, the product of his overly tender conscience. And if his 
> conscience is that tender, well, he just *couldn't* be  up to 
> something, could he? 
> 
> Well, I'm afraid he could. 
> 
> Because even though Lupin is endlessly remorseful about his 
> actions, he never takes any responsibility for the  consequences. 
>  Think about it. It's all shoulda, woulda, coulda. 
> 
> He deceived his friends and they *could* have rejected him.
>  
> He led his friends into being illegal Animagi, and they *could* 
> have gotten in trouble, but Dumbledore never found  out
>
I'm not sure he *led* them. He puts it that way but he also says that 
he never guessed they would do it. I suppose you'll take that 
inconsistency as more reason to be suspicious of Lupin, but it sounds 
to me as if he is more willing to blame himself than his friends, 
even though he did not instigate them becoming animagi. 

> He  broke the rules and somebody *could* have been bitten, but 
> there were only "close calls"
> 
Yes, he was wrong here, and he admits it.

> If Snape had found his way to the Shrieking Shack during the 
> prank, he *would* have encountered a fully grown werewolf.
> 
But Lupin knew nothing about the prank.

> He didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius and he *might* have lost 
> his trust
> 
> He put Harry and his friends in danger when he turned into a 
> werewolf, and he *might* have bitten any one of them. 
> 
And he admits he was wrong here. He does not specifically say 'I 
forgot to take my potion and I'm sorry' but he evidently feels 
responsible and leaves the school because of it. Not because of 
Snape. As I said he isn't perfect. Some of the things that happen to 
him are his fault, when I said he was the victim of circumstance I 
meant in regard to losing two close friends. And probably with regard 
to becoming a werewolf as well. But I do think he is, however flawed, 
a genuinely nice person.

> Now, setting aside the things that didn't happen, many of these 
> things had  real, damaging consequences.  But Lupin  ignores 
> them. 
> 
> Poor Remus, he feels so terrible about the marauder days even 
> though he never bit anybody and nobody ever found out. What 
> about the stuff they actually did?  Lupin ignores all that, so we 
> don't know what it was. Tresspassing?   Vandalism?  Stealing 
> sweets from Honeyduke's?  Baiting anybody James thought was 
> messing with Dark Arts?  Can't put it past 'em.  But maybe they 
> spent all their Marauder time in the forest playing leapfrog with 
> the unicorns. Right.

He may feel guilty about what the marauders did, we don't know. 
Whatever they did, is Harry the best person to tell? Lupin is hardly 
going to confesss misdeeds performed in league with James to James' 
son.
> 
> Poor Remus, he's *so* ashamed of thinking Sirius was a spy, 
> when he actually wasn't. But does he relate that to the years  his 
> innocent friend spent  in Azkaban for a crime he didn't commit?
> 
It could quite easily have been the other way around. They suspected 
each other, consequently neither holds it against the other. They 
both blame Peter, and rightly so.

> Poor Remus, he feels *so*  terrible about not warning anyone 
> that Sirius was an Animagus. Good thing Sirius wasn't really a 
> murderer after all. But does it once occur to Lupin that  the 
> Dementors would never have been brought to Hogwarts if 
> anyone had realized that they couldn't detect Sirius in his 
> Animagus form? 
> 
Perhaps not, it hadn't occured to me until now. And would anyone know 
that dementors can't detect animagi? Not saying that excuses him not 
telling DD but he might not have realised some of the consequences.

> Poor Remus, he's *so* concerned about Ron's leg. But does he 
> think that Ron wouldn't have chased the dog in the first place if 
> he'd known it might be Sirius in disguise?
> 
> This is speculation, of course. Since Lupin neglects to mention 
> the consequences, we can't tell whether he's cognizant of them 
> or not. But Lupin doesn't always  ignore consequences. 
> Sometimes he blames them on somebody else.
> 
> Lupin's dreadfully upset that he *might* have bitten somebody 
> the night of the shack. He  says it musn't ever happen again. But 
> he *did* forget to take his potion. He never says he's sorry about 
> that.  Poor, poor Remus,  it's all Snape's fault that he has to 
leave 
> the school.

Harry blames Snape, Lupin says he would have to leave anyway since he 
is a danger to the students. I think Lupin is annoyed with Snape for 
leaking the information that he is a werewolf, but I don't think he 
blames Snape entirely, and he does not appear to hold a grudge in 
OOtP.
> 
> Lupin admits he should have stopped his friends from torturing 
> Snape--but is there any  connection between that and the way 
> Snape feels about him? Poor, poor Remus, Snape hates him 
> because he was jealous of Lupin's friends.  Or for being a 
> werewolf. Or because he thinks that Lupin was in on the prank. 
> Or because of not getting the Order of Merlin. Nothing that was 
> Lupin's fault, oh no.
> 
I'm not sure about that one, when Lupin was talking about why Snape 
dislikes him it was before Harry knew about the marauders tormenting 
Snape, and it would have been rather insensitive of Lupin to tell 
him. Or possibly Lupin did not want to forfeit any chance of gaining 
Harry's trust. He does want to be liked, but that doesn't tell us he 
really believes he isn't to blame, only that he hides things 
sometimes.

>  No wonder Lupin's question about  sending an innocent man to 
> Azkaban put Snape over the edge. Where was all this concern 
> about innocent people when *he* was the one who was 
> suffering from a schoolboy grudge?

When does Lupin have a grudge against Snape?