Harry's dream about the Turban (was Re: Re: Neville and the Prophecy - VERY LONG

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 108414

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "corinthum" <kkearney at s...> wrote:
> 
> Having been absent from the list for two months, I'm not quite up to
> date on Kneasy's possession theory, so I won't comment much.  But I
> was intrigued by your mentioning Harry's first impression of Tom
> Riddle, that he was an almost-forgotten childhood friend.  
> 
> When I first reread this (after having discovered the truth about Tom
> Riddle and Harry's connection to him), I assumed the "half-forgotten"
> aspect was due to the fact that only a small part of Voldemort was in
> Harry.  But now it occurrs to me that this is probably exactly how
> Voldemort himself feels about Tom Riddle.  The current Voldemort has,
> according to Dumbledore, "[undergone] so many dangerous, magical
> transformations that when he surfaced as Lord Voldemort, he was barely
> recognizable."  At the current time, Voldemort doesn't consider
> himself Tom Riddle anymore; that's just a childhood friend,
> long-ingnored and half-forgotten. 

Kneasy:
Welcome back. Hope the rest has given you plenty of new insights.
you may bbe right - but I read "half-forgotten" as distant memories
rather tthan (possibly) fractional personalties. The sort of memories
one vaguely remembers from one's early childhood.

The  transformations that Voldy has undergone are mostly physical,
I think. If he had undergone equivalent personality alterations he might
no longer be Voldemort. No, I'm tending to stick with the possession
theory that I posted in February, namely  Voldy = Tom + Sally essence
and it happened in the Chamber.
Where I am modifying things slightly is what happened between Voldy
and Harry - which is much more relevant to the story.  
 
> Corinth:
> So let's see, whar point am I trying to make?  First, I feel that if 
> Tom Riddle was possessed by some long-lived entity, I think it more
> likely that it occurred during one of these magical transformations,
> rather than at the time he opened the Chamber of Secrets.  I think his
> tough childhood, discovery of his personal ancestry, and hatred of
> muggles as a result of both were plenty of incentive for his actions 
> before this point (including opening the Chamber).  I'd say the
> possession only gives him power, not motive.

Kneasy:
Here we diverge. I think that not only powers but also 'personality'
has been transferred. In Harry DD surmises that a merger has not yet
taken place -  "in essence  divided", though powers, such as Parselmouth
have leaked across. His fear is that if there is a merger Voldy will 
become dominant  and Harry will essentially no longer be Harry.

Obviously this transformation has gone much further with Tom; he is
now almost totally absorbed by the Sally entity, though vestiges remain;
enough for example, for him to recognise something of himself in Harry.
And this is possibly DD's hope - to split Tom from the whole.

> Corinth:
> Also, it makes me wonder WHAT is actually in Harry, if he is
> experiencing the full entent of some of Voldemort's thoughts, rather
> than just snatches as I originally thought.  You suggested that
> perhaps the Tom Riddle part of Voldemort was sent into Harry.  I think
> that the childhood friend thought indicates that it is the current,
> transformed Voldemort in him instead.  of course, what this indicates,
> I don't know; it's late, and I still have jet lag.  Anyone?
> 

Kneasy:
Not just Tom IMO. It's an intermingling of whatever it is that comprises
the Voldy entity.
Harry is in grave danger of being subverted from within and without
realising that it's happening.

Personality and thoughts are not necessarily the same thing;  thoughts
can be projected when Harry's guard is down, but a personality is more
a predeliction for a different belief  and behavioural system.  Thoughts
are derived from this, they do not ante-date it.

Hopefully I'll have time to post a more considered and detailed exposition
in a day or so when things aren't as hectic  as they are at the moment.