Time-turning as literary device (was: Just a comment about Lupin's malady)

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 108595


Valky wrote originally:
> > Please, I have absolutely no idea where anyone gets the notion 
that time travel has been overextended in the story.
> 
> SSSusan:
I would be VERY happy indeed if there is no more use of time-turning 
or polyjuice.  And it's not the quantity of chapters in which 
they've been used.  It's because of what HunterGreen said:  they 
were used as a narrative device, and once is  enough for some of us.
> 
> For some, these parts of the storyline are fun, adventurous and a 
> challenge to figure out.  For others, they feel like "deus ex 
> machina"--almost like a cop-out.  "How can I get X to happen when 
> it's really not very likely or possible?  > 
> Do you see what I mean?  

Valky Now replying:

I do see what you mean Susan, and I agree, but I also don't agree.

I agree that there is a  plot instrument role to the timeturner in 
POA and I can understand that when percieved *only* as this that a 
timeturner is a flat out, cop out.

However, I disagree that the time turner is ever intended to be the 
deus ex machina of any plot, past or future in the books.. duh I am 
so lame, go the puns Valky :P

I see time in the series as a complex and advanced branch of magic, 
having said that, I cannot see how one believing a cheesy 
application of it will happen can be validated. It seems to me that 
JKR has introduced time manipulation to the book with a dose of 
salts for the reader. So as to say that she has clearly sent the 
message:
'Now just supposing you could do this..... look here at the vast 
infinity of calculations involved in getting it right. Its no 
simplistic order to use time for anything.' 

Outside of strictly regulated small factor time control, the 
investigation of that branch of magic is confined to a kind of elite 
represented by the Dept O Mysteries. Anything further than the hour 
at a time that Hermione is allowed under the controlled conditions 
of Hogwarts supervision, it seems to me, is prohibited, which begs 
to me whether an underground or black market of time tampering might 
exist. But that is far from the point and besides it probably 
thickens things too much so I wouldnt be counting on it.

What I truly do believe is precedented in our existing canon is that 
the elite learned of the WW have a peripheral foothold in time and 
are able to recognise the signs that time has played a part. I see 
DD as having laid down this precendent for us in POA, if nobody 
minds me saying so the movie seemed to back up a theory that DD had 
seen the hours from some several angles possibly using a TT of his 
own; seen in the way he deliberately delays the execution party by 
showing them the view from Hagrids Hut. What I mean here is that DD 
controlled the three hours of the POA finale as an observer 
carefully recognising what was out of place and where. For DD to 
have done so much overseeing was probably exhausting. I expect you 
wouldn't wake up the next day with a plan to repeat living it from 
all angles like you did yesterday, so I suspect he doesnt make a 
habit of doing it. But, I believe maybe that he recognised the gift 
in Hermione, again demonstrated more vividly by the movie when she 
sees herself and knows quickly not to interfere. 

So JKR, helped by Cuaron, I believe managed, in telling her story, 
to grant us an adventure in time while not neglecting to make us 
painfully aware of the exhaustive influence each speck of time has 
on the infinite, and basically that to be wise enough to interfere 
with time you must first be wise enough to know *not to interfere*. 

Aside: Just maybe this is why Sirius *had* to die.

So I hope that you understand all I am really saying is I strongly 
disagree that POA's finale contained any undertones of a cheesy out, 
if anything JKR has set the stage for a warning for those that would 
percieve time travel as anything of that sort at all.
 
Best to You All
from Valky