Both Snape & Fudge are DEs: 3rd 'Missing' DE (Long)

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 110281

>>> Me earlier:
>> "the one too cowardly to return" = Karkaroff
>> "the one who has left me forever" = Fudge.
>> Snape appears to be an active Death Eater to me. In fact, I 
believe he was present at the rebirth ceremony (between Lucius and 
where Lestranges should have been, 'a man' stood there). <<<

>>> Kate Harding responded: 
> I think Snape was the `One, who I believe has left me for ever... 
he will be killed, of course...', Karkaroff was the `One, too 
cowardly to return' <<<


Brenda:
That was my original thought before considering Fudge :o)
But the more and more I think (and hear) about him, I think he has a 
lot of shady business going on his side.


1. His Ridiculous Denial of Voldemort's Return
-- If Fudge had any bit of common sense (which is debatable), he 
should soon realize that Dumbledore would not lie about something as 
serious as this. His life is at stake now, more greatly than most 
others (everyone expects him to lead the fight), why would he joke 
about that? Also there is the Boy-Who-Lived who narrowly escaped 
Voldemort and witnessed the entire rebirthing ceremony. The boy the 
whole wizarding community hero-worships. Who would make a better 
fighting team than `the greatest wizard' and `the Boy Who Lived'? 
Why not join them and make yourself more popular? Why deny this? 
What does he gain from denying his return? Accepting or not, if 
Voldemort had returned then it's a done matter, Fudge's opinion will 
not change anything. True, it will mean a chaos, disarray and heck 
of work as the Minister of Magic. I completely understand his wish 
that it wasn't true, who would? (except for the Death Eaters) 
However, if he is power-hungry as he appears to be, then I think any 
shrewd keen politician will decide to team up with `the greatest 
wizard of modern time'. Even Dumbledore nudges this to Fudge:

"I tell you now – take the steps I have suggested, and you will be 
remembered, in office or out, as one of the bravest and greatest 
Ministers for Magic we have ever known. Fail to act – and history 
will remember you as the man who stepped aside, and allowed 
Voldemort a second chance to destroy the world we have tried to 
rebuild!" (GoF, 615. UK)

If Fudge was acting mad purely out of concern for his political 
standing then I think these words should have been registered in his 
mind pretty clearly. Also, the words he keeps repeating or being 
used to describe his reactions: "preposterous" (611, 
614) "blustering" (610) "angrily" "shouted" (613). Somebody is 
really getting worked up here, isn't he. Why is it so hard for him 
to (logically) believe Voldemort could come back? The lad didn't 
die, just became vapour, I mean for heaven's sake the AK curse 
rebounded and he didn't die! Sure, not everyone was clear on what 
happened (`some say he died, some say he disappeared...') but he is 
the Minister, he should know more confidential information than 
anyone else. He also just witnessed Cedric's dead body clearly as a 
result of AK curse. The son of a high-ranking government official 
dead from a dark curse. It makes sense to pay some tribute to fellow 
politician if Fudge was solely worried about his power.

If this was only his initial reaction (mixture of shock and denial) 
but came back to sense and collaborated with Dumbledore, then it is 
a different issue. No, his denial is more profound than this, almost 
very personal. The way he shakes head and acts nervous... it is as 
if the one thing he feared the most has happened. He sounds 
genuinely afraid. He is terrified. He knows it is his neck Voldemort 
will be hunting for.


2. Fudge appears awfully calm for someone who had just seen the Dark 
Mark for the first time.
-- I actually asked HPfGU members when the Ministry found out about 
the Dark Mark (Post #100144). Most of the responses I received 
(thank you guys!) was that it becomes invisible after a while -– 
which implies that the Ministry probably still doesn't know about 
it. Even Sirius Black, the `notorious mass murderer' who had seen 
many Death Eaters in Azkaban, has no idea what it was:

" `[Karkaroff] showed Snape something on his arm?' said Sirius, 
looking frankly bewildered. He ran his fingers distractedly through 
his filthy hair, then shrugged again. `Well, I've no idea what 
that's about...'" (GoF, 461. UK)

Compare this to Fudge's reaction after Snape showed him his Dark 
Mark:

"Fudge stepped back from Snape, too. He was shaking his head. He did 
not seem to have taken in a word Snape had said. He stared, 
apparently repelled, at the ugly mark on Snape's arm..." (GoF, 616. 
UK)

"Apparently repelled"?? The Ministry had just acquired a new method 
for verifying Death Eaters. While its absence will not prove 
innocence, its presence will provide the positive case for 
association. If Fudge was concerned about his power and popularity 
here, isn't it natural for him to ask Snape more questions about the 
Dark Mark rather than actively repressing this bit of information? 
He does not seem surprised AT ALL.

Contrast that to Sirius' reaction, he is genuinely taken aback. 
Sirius was the original member of the Order, perhaps one of the more 
important members. Best friend of "those who defied him three 
times", godfather of the prophecy baby. It is likely that he had his 
hands on more confidential intel than others. He also spent 12 years 
of his life watching Death Eaters in prison. If Sirius had no clue 
about the existence of the Dark Mark, it is safe to assume that it 
was a well-kept secret. And how does Fudge react to this great 
revelation? Nothing. No curiosity, no plan to check back on Azkaban 
inmates to clear some names. This would be the noble thing to do –- 
true, who would associate `noble' with Fudge. However if all he 
cared about was his popularity then it would be a prudent move on 
his part.

His irrational behaviour is not consistent with what power-hungry 
politicians would do.


3. Dementors' Attack on Harry
-- I must resist taking credits from other great posters. Kneasy has 
thoughtfully pointed this out many times. It is my regret that I 
could not find the best one (Kneasy, if you can tip me off to better 
post that has more complete analysis on PoA it would be great!!)

------------------------------------[Kneasy in Post #109169]
No, DD didn't manipulate Fudge. Fudge is a baddy, either that or 
weak enough to be leaned on by someone evil.
Fudge makes two visits to Azkaban. In the first he 'just happens' to 
let Sirius get hold of a newspaper that 'just happens' to have a 
photograph of Peter in animagus form on the front page. He leaves 
Sirius to stew for a while. He drops in again at a later date "Just 
happened to be in the neighbourhood" and surprise, surprise, 
this 'just happens' to be the night Sirius escapes.
"Oh dear. We've lost a prisoner. Good job we 'just happen' to have 
some Dementors to track him down."
Dementors who strangely seem to be uninterested in Sirius and 
extremely interested in Harry -- in the train, on the Quidditch 
Pitch, after the Shrieking Shack. In the last two instances they 
*ignore* Sirius and 'just happen' to concentrate on Harry. Why? 
Because they've been told to.
Springing Sirius provides a reason for events that will result in a 
tragic "accident' where an innocent boy is kissed. How sad. But good 
news for Voldy supporters.
------------------------------------[Post 109169]

Fudge seems quite *fond* of Dementors. In the least, he doesn't seem 
to regard them as one of the most foul creatures. He uses them quite 
often: to Hogwarts, to Hogsmeade (yeah right, as if Black is 
actually thick enough to show up in Hogsmeade. Pfft). He is not even 
remotely interested in what Barty Crouch Jr has to confess, he just 
squash that chance right out of him ASAP.

Snape goes on: " `[Fudge] insisted on summoning a Dementor to 
accompany him into the castle. He brought it up to the office where 
Barty Crouch -'" (GoF, 610. UK)

What, Fudge ASKED a Dementor to accompany him? What is he, Dementor-
proof? It does not affect HIM? So surely this means their attack on 
Harry must have been ordered by authority figures, namely Mr Fudge.

The Ministry also sends a couple of Dementors to 4 Privet Drive in 
OoP – nead I say more?


>>> Kate wrote:
I believe we have clear evidence that Snape was not at the 
gathering: 
" 'Severus,' said Dumbledore, turning to Snape, 'you know what I 
must ask you to do. If you are ready... if you are prepared...' 'I 
am,' said Snape. He looked slightly paler than usual, and his cold, 
black eyes glittered strangely. 'Then, good luck,' said Dumbledore, 
and he watched, with a trace of apprehension on his face, as Snape 
swept wordlessly after Sirius. " (GoF, 619. UK)


Brenda:

Well let me remind you again of the possible Time-Turning event 
here. Snape, after hearing the list of Death Eaters who showed up, 
realized that Harry did not recognize him. So Snape turns back time, 
Apparate (or create a Portkey) to the graveyard, and join Voldy in 
grotesque celebration... I know this is a speculation, but I believe 
it explains nicely how Snape can keep up with his role as a double 
agent.

After all, we don't know what Snape did after he disappeared. Did 
anyone ask JKR about this?


>>> If his famed Occlumency fails him, he will most likely be 
tortured and/or force-fed veritaserum until he reveals most of the 
Order's most vital secrets. <<<

While his Occlumens skills are vital in his role, I believe 
Voldemort is skilled enough to sense anything funny going on with 
Snape's mind. He is, after all, a master at Legilimens. (`The Dark 
Lord, for instance, almost always knows when somebody is lying to 
him' OoP, 469. UK)  Surely Snape is good at protecting his 
incriminating thoughts from Voldemort. But I believe he hasn't come 
under the most intense scrutinizing of his mind from Voldemort yet. 
He has not given him the reason to do so, and it is because 
Voldemort does not doubt Snape's loyalty (yet). We have witnessed 
Avery being Crucio-ed several times and he openly claimed his 
loyalty. Even Wormtail, who has been a great deal of help back to 
his power, had been tortured many times. Then why not Snape? Not 
that Snape is a kind of person who would divulge that kind of thing 
to Harry. But I believe Snape had not been caught under the radar so 
far, and it is because Snape acted every bit as a Death Eater.


>>> Imagine you are Snape. 15 years ago you betrayed the Dark Lord, 
fleeing his service and handing over one of his servants (Karkaroff) 
to the Aurors. Now you want to spy on him. Are you just going to 
show up at his side when the Dark Mark appears? <<< 

It is a general knowledge amongst the Death Eaters that Karkaroff 
was their traitor. According to much beloved Padfoot in GoF, 291, UK:

" `[Karkaroff] did a deal with the Ministry of Magic,' said Sirius 
bitterly. `He said he'd seen the error of his ways, and then he 
named names ... he put a load of other people into Azkaban in his 
place ... he's not very popular in there, I can tell you'"

So everyone blames Karkaroff as the cowardly traitor. But who did he 
really betray?

>From Karkaroff's trial in Dumbledore's Pensieve, GoF, 511-513, UK:

- Antonin Dolohov: already apprehended shortly after Karkaroff
- Evan Rosier: already dead
- Travers: already captured
- Mulciber: already captured
- Augustus Rookwood*
- Severus Snape: mysterious greasy git ;)

Thus most Death Eaters he was willing to sacrifice had already been 
accounted for. If it wasn't for Rockwood, it was back to Azkaban for 
Karkaroff. Who do you think gave this intel in the first place? Our 
greasy lovely SSSnivellus comes to mind? ;P  Very fortunately for 
Snape, Karkaroff wears the burden of betrayal that Snape had done. 
Death Eaters do not have reasons to suspect Snape: Malfoy speaks 
most highly of him. (OoP)

I can go on and on for another 10 pages on how Fudge is evil and 
Snape is an active Death Eater, but I shall resist. This is too long 
already. Apologies!


With HPness,
Brenda