[HPforGrownups] Depression ... in OotP

[caesian]

No: HPFGUIDX 110692

I, Caesian, have snipped most of psyche's excellent post below - 
leaving only a hint of the full and detailed analysis she created.  I 
recommend reading her post first if you are at all interested in 
reading this one.

psyche wrote:
> ...I feel that depression is what Harry is suffering from for most of 
> OotP, ... I knew when I read PoA onwards that Jo must have had 
> depression at some point in her life, ... (I later found, in reading 
> interviews, that she had indeed suffered from both depression and from 
> artist's block, .... For example, she uses her experience in writing 
> about the Dementors - she has said so in [an] interview. But what I 
> really want to look at is Harry in OotP, as I don't think I've seen a 
> connection made elsewhere between his behaviour and depression.... 
> Harry ... is overwhelmed by feelings of injustice, and by rage... His 
> mood swings, triggered by the tiniest events, ... which contributes to 
> the problem that the sufferer's nearest and dearest are often baffled 
> by their behaviour: 'The warm glow that had flared inside him at the 
> sight of his two best friends was extinguished as something icy 
> flooded the pit of his stomach. All of a sudden - after yearning to 
> see them for a solid month - he felt he would rather Ron and Hermione 
> left him alone.''Harry felt a dull, sinking sensation in his stomach 
> and before he knew it the feeling of hopelessness which had plagued 
> him all summer rolled over him again.'

now Caesian:
At first, I was disappointed to realize that psyche intended to make 
the case that Harry is depressed in OotP, because I had already 
considered the issue and decided it was too clouded to judge for 
certain.  That Harry may be feeling emotions that are not even his own 
- emotions that originate in Lord Voldemort - made this an impossible 
call from my initial readings.

Enter psyche, who's detailed post made me realize that the extent and 
degree of the similarities between Harry's situation and clinical 
depression could not have been accidental.  Our author is meticulous 
and almost fanatically opposed to the inclusion of irrelevant material. 
  And, reading psyche's post, as well as those that followed, showed me 
meaning in the books that I had not fully considered.  All of this 
brings me to another speculation, which I think is the next logical 
step if we do agree that Harry is, in fact, meant to be "depressed" by 
the author of this book.

But first, I wanted to address some issues raised by Del and Kathy, who 
disagree that Harry is depressed and make compelling arguments of their 
own.  I am not an expert on depression, far from it.  But, my 
profession is Neuroscience and I have some knowledge of depression from 
a clinical perspective, as well as from a familial and personal history 
of this disorder.  As an aside, I do want to include that in the same 
way other people disclose their own biases to explain their posts and 
opinions.  However, I also want to include this disclaimer based on 
years of experience introducing what I do at parties, etc.  Yes, not to 
put too fine a point on it, that does make me a brain-surgeon, 
technically (although not really, and that's not what I do most of the 
time!!!).   But that doesn't really translate well to other skills, 
such as remembering where you parked your car, for example - everybody 
is given an equally robust set of talents, in my view, and if I'm good 
at Neuroscience that doesn't mean I'm good at comprehending Harry 
Potter, maybe even less so.  Sorry, that's way off track probably, and 
maybe more for my benefit - which I try to avoid - but I am trying to 
communicate in a manner that is the opposite of pompous! so I hope 
you'll factor in my intent and lack of writing skills.

To summarize Del's very good post, she noted that (1) Harry did not 
show all of the signs of clinical depression, (2) and even those signs 
he did exhibit were not consistently present.  For example, we do not 
have reason to believe he has suffered loss of appetite severe enough 
to result in weight loss.  (3) Both Katie and Del point to the fact 
that Harry should be expected to demonstrate signs of stress and grief 
because his situation demands it.  (4) In addition, everyone seems to 
agree that perhaps Sirius is, in fact, clinically depressed in OotP.

I want to address points 1-3 at the same time.  First off, both Del and 
Kathy are correct that these symptoms, the symptoms of depression, are 
natural and expected when a person is suffering from grief or 
incredible stress.  Those who endure traumatic life events (even good 
changes, such as a much-wanted promotion, or new baby can be 
'traumatic' - change is stressful), or who suffer the loss of a loved 
one or are personally involved in the death of another human being - 
even a stranger - are expected to suffer from such symptoms.  This is 
the normal and appropriate response to such events, and it is those 
persons who do not go through this grieving who are considered unusual 
and possibly deranged.  When someone is grieving, and for good reason, 
are they "depressed"?  Yes, they are, very much so.  (I think.)  The 
distinction I believe Del and Kathy are making is between depression 
that is triggered by a traumatic event - a natural and healthy response 
to loss - and depression that is pathological.  In other words, certain 
individuals can suffer prolonged bouts of depression that do not seem 
to be triggered by external events.  (Patients who are grieving and 
depressed are given palliative care - care to lessen the severity of 
their symptoms, such as mild sleep aids - while patients who are 
clinically depressed are given treatment to attempt to address the 
organic cause of their inappropriate depression.  We do not always give 
such treatments to patients with a recognized traumatic event because a 
certain degree of grieving is considered healthy.)  While Harry has 
every reason to grieve, and to show these symptoms, and while it may be 
unlikely that he is one of those who suffers from a predisposition to 
inappropriate clinical depression, he IS clearly depressed during OotP. 
  He does not show all of the diagnostic symptoms of depression, nor 
does he seem depressed all of the time.  He's still depressed - these 
are consistent with the clinical picture - and as psyche noted, each 
individual is unique.  Sirius is also depressed during OotP, and 
although we see little of him (as is typical of someone dealing with 
depression in the way Sirius does), I believe his struggle with 
depression is an intentional counterpoint created by the author.

Back to my original point - what does this all mean if Harry is 
literally connected to the mind of Lord Voldemort?

It seems to me that the trials Harry endures and triumphs over through 
each book are a well worn and symbolic path to personal enlightenment.  
Each book presents a challenge that might be viewed as a metaphor for 
something the reader could encounter in the non-magical world.  Harry, 
as our Hero Protagonist shows us the way to overcome the metaphoric 
challenge, as we struggle along side him at the moments of his greatest 
losses, even his death, and then triumph with him.  In this case, the 
literal situation is that Lord Voldemort is invading Harry's world, 
unto his very mind, and Harry is beset by rage, frustration, grief, 
sadness and loss.  We could interpret this literally, and probably with 
just cause.  Harry's task is to triumph over his depression, to deal 
with his grief, to be sad and to rise again to fight the good fight.  
He is a role model for dealing with grief and loss while Sirius, his 
counterpoint, is less successful.  While Harry displays coping skills 
that mitigate and address his grief, such as his leadership in the DA 
and his recognition of his friend's solidarity and love, Sirius - with 
his slightly Mundungus waft of drink, and his sad recalcitrant retreat 
into himself - is a model of what not to do in grief.  (Poor Sirius.  
His life story was one of the most tragic in a Septology of loss and 
tragic life histories.  Perhaps his death will be a better adventure.)

But there may be another layer of metaphor on top of this literal 
situation.  What metaphor is the author making through the mind-link 
with Lord Voldemort?  I am not entirely certain, because I do not know 
whether we fully understand the link yet.  Nor am I convinced that 
Harry has truly triumphed over his grief, if he ever can in such a 
constant onslaught.  The coping skills he developed in OotP may serve 
him well as he struggles with the loss of Sirius, perhaps his greatest 
challenge thus far - but no amount of coping skill can mitigate that he 
will have much suffering ahead of him.  Nor is it clear that he has 
repelled the mind-link with Voldemort.  But, he has exorcized his demon 
at least once, and it was through the power of his love for Sirius that 
he was able to do so.  In this sense, I feel the mind-link with 
Voldemort is (as is almost everything else in these complex books) much 
more than a mere plot device.  It is one of the most pervasive 
metaphors that has yet been introduced to the series.

Any thoughts on what this might mean?  Is Voldemort hate?  Is Harry 
able to invoke (sorry, to those fundamentalist who feel this word is 
loaded) the power of love?  Do love and hate struggle for control 
within him (a.k.a. us), and gaining the power to choose which will 
triumph is the Hero's journey?

I dunno.

Cheers,
Caesian - who is still really excited about the (I think) solution of 
the DADA jinx on another thread, especially in light of this comment by 
JKR:


  Royal Albert Hall Appearance
  June 26 2003 Q&A with Stephen Fry

SF: ...We've still got time for more questions to come in from around 
the world if you want to email them in and Mr ? will bring them in. 
Now, we have another questions from another competition winner who's 
called Jackson Long, there in the audience too

JKR: Hey Jackson

SF: Hello Jackson, hurrah. And lets have a look and see what your 
question was shall we?

JL: Prof Snape has always wanted to be the defence against the dark 
arts teacher. In book 5 he still doesn't get the job Why does Professor 
Dumbledore not allow him to be the defence against the dark arts 
teacher?

SF: There

JKR: <sighs> That is an excellent question and the reason is that, I 
have to be careful what I say here, the reason is that to answer it 
fully would give and awful lot away about the remaining two books but 
when Professor Dumbledore took Professor Snape on to the staff and 
Professor Snape said I'd like to teach defence against the darks arts 
please and Professor Dumbledore FELT THAT THAT MIGHT BRING OUT THE 
WORST IN Professor Snape

(Caesian's caps)

<laughs> Somewhat

JKR: So he said I think we'll let you teach potions and see how you get
  along there

SF: Hmm. Now Snape, we talked a little about him before. There's 
something
  about the letter S isn't there?

JKR: Yes there is

SF: Especially with an N in with it. You can't help saying it without
  snarling

JKR: I could have very easily have called him Snicket but Snicket is a
  funier, kinder word

SF: And sneeze and sneer and Snape and

JKR: And snarl

(also...)

SF: Where as most of the character, like Snape for example, are very 
hard to
  love but there's a sort of ambiguity I think is probably the best word 
you
  can't quite decide, there's something rather sad about Snape as well,
  something very lonely and you kind of, although he turns out to of 
course
  have such a wicked past and it's fascinating to watch how he you know, 
in
  the first book we thought he was the evil one and a aprt form 
Voldemort the
  most evil and in the second we thought that and slowly we just get 
this idea
  that maybe he's not so bad after all

JKR: Yeees. You shouldn't think he's too nice, let me just say that.

SF: Right I shall bear that in mind. Worth watching Serverus Snape

JKR: He's worth keeping and eye on, definitely

and...

The Connection

12 October 1999

J.K. Rowling Interview Transcript
There’s an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape
  He, um, there’s so much I wish I could say to you, and I can’t because 
it would ruin. I promise you, whoever asked that question, can I just 
say to you that I’m slightly stunned that you’ve said that and you’ll 
find out why I’m so stunned if you read Book 7. That’s all I’m going to 
say.