Depression and Harry in OotP -- Information

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 110707

>>> Psyche wrote:
> I knew when I read PoA onwards that Jo must have had depression at 
> some point in her life, because her descriptions of certain 
feelings are so clear, so accurate, that I immediately recognised 
them from my own experience. <<<

Brenda:
Thank you Psyche, for your wonderful post! I remember reading that 
exact statement here before, though can't remember who.


> Please excuse any generalisations I make. Although I recognise my 
> own experiences in Harry's, other depression sufferers will feel 
> completely different. Depression is a complicated beastie, and no 
> two sufferers will have the same experience. 
> For example, although one of the common conceptions of depression 
is a lack of feeling, some depressions are associated with a lot of 
anxiety, and some with a lot of anger. <<<

Bren:
Alright, all the psychology posts lately have invoked the 
neuroscience in me. I just wrote the huge neuro exam this morning, 
with the topic of depression and schizophrenia fresh in mind. Allow 
me to elaborate with scientific information.

First of all, to present you with a generalized spectrum of mental 
health:

Anxiety/depression -- Bipolar/mania/depression -- Schizophrenia
--Continuum of depression: blues to severe psychotic depression 
(lose contact with reality)--

It is generally understood that while anxiety is more environmental, 
other mental disorders are more hereditary. With bipolar disease and 
schizophrenia, it is estimated to be of 70% genetic contribution, 
which is quite significant. Identical twins are found to have about 
four times higher concordance rates for mood disorders than 
fraternal twins.

> one possible trigger which is recognised is a prolonged period of 
> perceived failure, uselessness, helplessness, being defeated or 
> trapped - which is why it's so common among the unemployed.

The following is an excerpt from "Psychology" (Henry Gleitman, 5E, 
781~782):
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About 20% of depressions have psychotic features: that is, they are 
accompanied by delusions or hallucinations. Some of these are 
variations on the theme of worthlessness 
 Others concern guilt 
about some unspeakable, unpardonable sin, and patients report 
hearing the devil tell them that they will surely burn in hell for 
eternity 
 The extreme of depression is a depressive stupor in which 
the person may become entirely unresponsive, rock back and forth, 
urinate or defecate on herself, and mutter incoherently.

Specific cognitive defects often accompany severe depression, 
including disrupted attention and short-term memory. Moreover, 
depressed patients often exhibit various physical manifestations 
that are called vegetative signs 
 It is as if both bodily and 
psychic batteries have run down completely.

Vegetative symptoms seem to predominate in the depressions that 
occur in non-Western cultures, while mood symptoms like feelings of 
worthlessness and sinfulness are largely confined to Western 
depressions. The reasons for this difference are unknown, but 
several hypotheses have been proposed. These include the implicit 
blame that individualist Western cultures affix on people who are 
not faring well and the various ways that the cultures understand 
and cope with death and mourning.
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>>> By the cognitive model [snip] the theory is that
> when you think about negative things, it makes you feel bad,
> and when you feel bad, you are more prone to thinking about
> negative things and remembering negative feelings
> - the negatives seem closer and the positives farther away –
> and so if you dwell on these thoughts and feelings
> you will quickly spiral down and down. <<<

This cognitive view described above was originally proposed by 
psychiatrist Aaron Beck. "For Beck, the depression stems from a 
triad of intensely negative and irrational beliefs that the person 
holds about herself, her future, and the world around her. The 
individual believes that she is worthless, that her future is bleak, 
and that whatever happens around her is sure to turn out for the 
worst. These beliefs, then, form the core of a NEGATIVE COGNITIVE 
SCHEMA in terms of which the patients interprets whatever happens to 
her." (Gleitman, 786 from "Psychology")

Developed from Beck's hypothesis, there have been other cognitive 
accounts for depression, for instance the Learned Helplessness 
Theory by Martin Seligman and Depressive Explanatory Style.

Of course, these are merely psychogenic factors for mental 
disorders. There are numerous on-going researches on trying to 
extract the precise neurosynaptic mechanisms for the organic 
factors. For instance, the dopamine hypothesis, dopamine-serotonin 
interaction hypothesis, or glutamate hypothesis is widely believed 
to explain schizophrenia (bottom line, overactive dopamine neurons). 
With depression, many investigators believe it to be the 
neurotransmitter serotonin, while others insist on the importance of 
norepinephrine. Different hypotheses naturally influence different 
methods of treatment. Conventional antidepressants include selective 
serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) which increase the diffusion of 
serotonin, for synaptic transmission. SSRIs can also act as 
alternative to anxiolytics in treating anxiety.

>>> I think we can make that leap and theorise that she intended to 
be writing about depression when she wrote OotP Harry. <<<

Bren:

Well I'll wait till we scan Harry's brain and see if there is any 
significant tissue loss in his fronto-limbic cortex (around anterior 
cingulated and orbito-frontal cortex)! :D

What I have realized, after composing this long and `encyclopedic' 
post, is that Harry is more likely exhibiting very early stages of 
depression. I have never experienced depression, which would explain 
why I had failed to pick up these signs in PoA and OoP. If a reader 
with similar experience felt that way, then I am certainly not going 
to argue whether his/her intuition is right or wrong. Although I 
must ask you, Psyche, where did you find evidences of depression in 
PoA? Or you just meant the chills when the Dementors drew near?

This is my take on the issue, and it is extension of what Psyche has 
declared earlier on: "Depression is a complicated beastie, and no 
two sufferers will have the same experience." I agree with Del that 
Harry does not exhibit all of the classic signs of depression -- he 
is only fifteen! What a LIFE to battle with fully-developed 
depression AND the undesired legacy to save the world! It is very 
much possible that Harry is in fact starting to suffer from what 
Muggles call `clinical depression'; however if he is it is still 
very primitive and he will fight it without realizing. His much-
returned selfless and sacrificial love from friends and others will 
help him through it.


>>> Katie wrote:
> However, I stand by my previous supposition (if anybody remembers 
it)
> that Sirius does seem to be clinically depressed in OOTP. I also
> think it partially explains some of his reckless behavior. <<<

Bren:

Katie, you are back!!!! ;)
Of course I remember your supposition that Sirius appears to be 
clinically depressed. If I were to choose a depressed character from 
Potterverse it will definitely be Sirius, not Harry. But now that 
Sirius has moved onto `the next great adventure', hopefully he has 
tasted some real joy in (after)life!


Brenda, who just realized that an 'almost' brain-surgeon Caesian has 
posted a MUCH better and thorough explanation. If I didn't have to 
go through my textbooks and lecture notes I wouldn't even be posting 
this! *ashamed*