Harry's Depression in OoP

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 110770

>>> Psyche/Kate Harding wrote:
> My word, this thread is getting scholarly! Maybe we should all 
think about collaborating on a paper for Accio 2005. <<<

Brenda:
Apologies for being too scholarly and on constant lecture-mode. Most 
of posters here are SUCH good debaters that the only way to make 
some intellectual contribution is to shower everyone with scientific 
facts. Sort of defence mechanism, if you will. *shrugs* 

And how did you know I've started writing a paper for Accio 
2005 ;P?! This thread is very informative and provides a whole new 
way of character analysis, I think we should collaborate on a paper! 
<grin>


> Brenda earlier:
> > Of course, these are merely psychogenic factors for mental 
> > disorders. <snip>
> > Well I'll wait till we scan Harry's brain and see if there is 
any significant tissue loss in his fronto-limbic cortex (around 
> > anterior cingulated and orbito-frontal cortex)! :D
> 
> psyche:
> You seem to see the cognitive processes as a kind of shadow play 
projected over the 'real' neurological processes.
> I see the neurological processes being merely the chemical results 
of the cognitive and emotional problems.
> The distinction doesn't really matter, of course, because the two 
> processes run in parallel, so the direction of causation is 
> irrelevant [snip] I wouldn't want people to get the 
> impression that the mentally ill are somehow medically or 
genetically a different or inferior kind of person - anyone can 
suffer depression <<<

Brenda:

I wholeheartedly agree with you, there is much stigma attached to 
these illnesses. And no, I actually don't view mental disorders as 
the byproducts of neurophysiological defects, rather the reverse 
seems true (your take). I have always been a happy little kid -- 
everyone used to comment on how I'm always smiling and laughing. But 
what I have learned over last few years is how EASY it is to feel 
depressed and helpless, especially over things that were too 
demanding for your own ability or out of control.

I suppose it comes down to how fast one recognizes this as more 
profound problemis and struggles to move on. And I gently ask you 
not to pin me down with "it ain't so, you wouldn't know how it 
felt!" because I'm simply wondering why some manages to get out and 
others fall deeper and deeper. Prolonged self-indulgement of "I 
can't do anything, I'm hopeless" will most definitely slow down the 
activities of neurotransmitters and neurophysiological processes as 
whole.

As for the significant tissue loss in fronto-limbic cortex -- this 
is observed in more severely-depressed patients, of course. Also not 
necessarily all of them, else general treatments will be much more 
effective to most patients. Human brain is *extremely* plastic, and 
no two brains are the same! I can imagine that while Harry's brain 
structure will look very normal under MRI scan, his activities (e.g. 
glucose, oxygen, blood, etc) might start to show some deviations 
from norm. But fMRI is expensive and has long line-up, so no. <dorky 
grin>


>>> psyche:
> I think the idea of 'early stages' is a bit of a red herring, 
because it's defined by what happens next.
> He may recover, or he may get worse, depending on his choices and 
the reactions of those around him.
> But if he recovers, that doesn't mean he didn't have depression. 
> Simply that it didn't progress to be a *severe* case.

Brenda:

Oops. Pardon me for not being clear.
Yes, I meant Harry is suffering from early stages of depression from 
the POV of physicians, per se. I certainly had no intention of 
implying that his depression will progress, good heaven's, I 
couldn't 
do that to our hero! (though not my favorite character, this new 
analysis has made me feel more sympathetic towards Harry ;P)

JKR said that Harry will fell better and learn to control his anger 
in next books, right? Right?

	
>>> Psyche: Most people who go through a patch of depression as a 
result of life events recover as those events are lifted.
> I think Harry's gone a little past this point -
> I think his depression has begun to feed on itself. <<<
 
Brenda:
As many posters have pointed out, Harry's symptoms of depression in 
OoP can be easily accounted by the amounting stress from 
circumstances. Though that IS how depression starts, really. It will 
be awhile before Harry realizes this as more serious issue than mere 
teenage angst. These doesn't seem to be Mind Healers in Wizarding 
World either, which worries me. But then simple Cheering Charm or 
antidepressant potions might help ;)


>>> Del wrote: Harry keeps feeling bad because
> the events that make him feel bad are *never* lifted.
> Harry is attacked from everywhere (including his own
classmate in his own dormitory !), so of course he's not being overly
happy.

Brenda:
But that's how depression starts?!


>>> Psyche wrote :
> " Although I would be worried about his tendency to blame himself 
and his unwillingness to talk about his feelings "
>>> Del replied :
> I don't see that Harry tends to blame himself particularly. He gets
> paranoid upon hearing that he's possessed by LV, but then who 
wouldn't ?
> As for being unwilling to talk about his feelings, I'd say he's 
just like everyone else on that one : none of the kids seems to be 
willing to talk. Except maybe Cho. Neville in particular has always 
kept everything to himself, and nobody ever seemed to find that 
strange. <<<

Brenda:
I always viewed Harry's tendency to blame everything on himself as 
typical teenage hero's problem. He believes he had chances to fix it 
but he didn't or couldn't. Very desperately trying not to go into 
Occlumency and Sirius' death here, but except for those occasions 
Harry feels helpless and blames himself because he is the hero, 
Marked One to conquer Voldemort. He knows he has powers to stop more 
tragedies from happening.

Cho is another can of worms. So is Neville. [Oy oy, Annoyed Grunt]


Brenda, preparing herself for another Professor-mode for Sirius' 
Bipolar theory.