[HPforGrownups] Re: Depression and Harry in OotP -- PTSD

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 110914

On 22 Aug 2004 at 11:33, naamagatus wrote:

> You make a good point. However, here are a couple of quotes from JKR 
> interviews:

They are interesting quotes, but I still don't think they resolve 
the issue.
 
> ------
> (From: The Times 30 June 2000 J.K. Rowling, the interview By Ann 
> Treneman)
> 
> I do not think that these [Dementors] are just characters. I think 
> they are a description of depression. "Yes. That is exactly what they 
> are," she says. "It was entirely conscious. And entirely from my own 
> experience. Depression is the most unpleasant thing I have ever 
> experienced." 
> What does she mean? 
> "It is that absence of being able to envisage that you will ever be 
> cheerful again. The absence of hope. That very deadened feeling, 
> which is so very different from feeling sad. Sad hurts but it's a 
> healthy feeling. It's a necessary thing to feel. Depression is very 
> different." 

Here to me, it's clear she is describing the depression she 
experienced - as she says. It's also a quite vague definition, I 
doubt she's describing all of her feelings about depression, 
because that's not necessary to answer the journalist's questions.
 
> From: Canadian Broadcasting Co. July 2000 J.K. ROWLING INTERVIEW Evan 
> Solomon
> 
> JK: Um, I was depressed, um, I'd say - would it be 1994 - I did 
> suffer a spell of what I was told was clinical depression. [...] But 
> the Dementors, uh, it's so hard to trace the origin of something. I 
> saw these things and I knew what I wanted them to do, but they 
> became, as I really thought about what they did, I realized that's 
> what I was doing. That's normally the way it happens with me. I don't 
> consciously think 'And now, I will create the personification of 
> depression' but as I'm creating them I realize what I'm doing. You 
> know, what unconsciously is going on. So they create an absence of 
> feeling, which is my experience of depression. It is an absence... 
> E: That is your definition of it. 
> JK: (Nods) Mmm. 

This one is a bit more direct - but even so, a nod and an Mmm to a 
reporter's rather leading question doesn't tell us a lot. It 
certainly doesn't tell us that JKR believes what she is describing 
in a short answer to a journalists question tells the whole story.

I don't doubt for a moment that JKR is describing her experience of 
depression. But I still think it's a huge leap to assume that means 
this is the only thing she'd say was depression.

As a recovered clinical depressive, I can tell you that I would 
never *dream* of trying to describe in any detail depressive 
symptoms I didn't experience myself. But by the same token, I would 
never try to claim that what I experienced is the only form of 
depression possible. That, to me, would seem the height of 
arrogance, and potentially extremely cruel.
 
> It appears, then, that depression is a single thing for her ("That is 
> your definition of it"). After all, she didn't write the HP books as 
> companions to the DSM. Whatever the books are, they are not an 
> exploration or illustrations of various mental disorders in their 
> different guises. 

No, but they are a series of books that explore human emotion, 
especially Harry's emotions, in quite a bit of detail at times. It 
doesn't have to be a diagnostic manual to get it right, or to have 
insight.
 
> To repeat my (hopefully adequately defended) main argument: JKR 
> describes depression in PoA via the Dementors. What Harry goes 
> through in OoP is very different from the effect Dementor have. And 
> since JKR views depression as a single thing, she therefore didn't 
> intend for Harry to be depressed in OoP. 

You could be correct - but I'm still not at all convinced myself.

I honestly *really* doubt that J.K. Rowling regards depression as a 
single thing. In fact, if I said I thought that was at all likely, 
I think I would be insulting the lady, because her writing to me 
suggest she understands emotion and depression fairly well.

I have no doubt that the Dementors describe the experience JKR has 
of depression. But I would honestly be very surprised if a writer, 
who writes emotional content as well as J.K. Rowling does - 
specifically the emotional content of teenagers, and who is so good 
at inspiring emotions in her readers, and who therefore must have a 
pretty good understanding of emotions and feelings, would be so 
narrow minded as to believe she completely understands depressive 
illness and all of its emotional implications and experiences for 
everyone who has suffered it, is suffering it, or will ever suffer 
it.

I also don't think it's the type of thing she's automatically going 
to discuss in interviews, even if the subject of depression in 
general comes up.

Now, maybe she doesn't regard Harry as depressed. I honestly don't 
know. If she doesn't, that's fine. She knows him far better than I 
do.

But I think it's stretching a point way too far to *assume* she has 
a view of depression as a single thing, just because she hasn't 
explicitly said she doesn't.



Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia


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