Snape's DE past

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 111192

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at m...> wrote:
> 
> Potioncat:
> The entire debt to James/hates you because of James seems too 
> contrived to work. So while he may not like Harry, I'd say there is 
> something else there.  
> 
> But, I'd like to hear more of your thoughts that he may not dislike 
> Harry. Does that at all connect to the idea that he's tough on Harry 
> as a teaching method?  (Alright everyone, Snape is a teacher, but 
> he's no educator.)For further information, see Baloo's style of 
> teaching in Jungle Book...Kipling not Disney.
> 

Kneasy:
Yes, it seems contrived to me too.
Part of it is DD being devious (again). He openly admits that he's
dumping Harry on the Dursleys because he's afraid of what would
happen if Harry were to grow up basking in the admiration of the WW.
He's quite happy for Harry to suffer in Privet Drive  so long as Harry
isn't 'spoiled'. 

In fact it's so bad that Harry sees admission to Hogwarts and the WW
as an escape from misery. And what happens when he does return?
The customers in the Leaky Cauldron fall over themselves to shake 
his hand, tell him how much they admire him, etc. This to an 11 year
old. Not unexpected but still not good. A corrective will be needed.
Enter Snape. Harry must learn that the WW is more than just a refuge
from the privations of Privet Drive. There are people who don't like
him, who wish him harm. He has to learn to deal with this, he has to
learn that the WW is not safe and although he's a hero to many life
is not going to be a bed of roses from now on. 

But talking to him, explaining the situation, is unlikely to be enough.
He needs an 'enemy' - someone to put him on his mettle but who will
cause him no real harm. An equivalent to Vernon Dursley - which when
you think about it is just what Snape is. A biased, unfair, rude bully.
DD underlines this by referring to the old animus between James
and  Snape. This is something that Harry can understand, it makes
sense - at least to an 11 year old who never knew his father.

As a bonus Snape, while apparently trying to 'catch Potter out' is in
a very good position to keep a watchful eye on him. All too frequently
when Harry is out and about when he shouldn't be, when there are 
dodgy people about, so is Snape. He's DD's first line of defence for
Harry.

Of course it wouldn't do for Harry to get wind of this - there would be 
the possibility that Harry would stop taking it all seriously; might even
start thinking of it as just a game of wits. That wouldn't do at all. 
There's an old saying that if you want to get the attention of a mule
then the first thing you do is hit it over the head with a piece  of 4x4. 
Metaphorically that's what happens in his very first Potions Lesson - 
Snape dumps on him for no apparent reason and very definitely has 
Harry's attention from then on.

Nobody thinks that Snape is a half-wit, in fact jjust the opposite. He's
intelligent and logical. Much too intelligent to confuse Harry with
James (echoes of Sirius). Whatever antipathy there was between the
two has absolutely nothing to do with Harry and Snape is smart enough
to know this. On a couple of occasions Snape compares Harry to James
but he doesn't confuse them. Why would he bother? James is  dead;
Snape won that contest on points. I don't claim that he likes Harry,
more that he is exaggerating his dislike. Like all successful agents
Snape is a consumate actor. He probably sits iin his dungeon duplex
giggling to himself thinking up new ways to get under Harry's skin.

Every book or so Sevvy *demands* that Harry be expelled. Who does
he demand this of? DD. Knowing that DD will do nothing. It's all
for show. Note that when DD isn't around (during the reign of Dear
Dolly) the one thing Snape does not do is to demand that "Potter be 
expelled." Because now he probably would be. Umbridge would get
rid of Harry in a flash but strangely, Snape does not voice any
comlaints. There is even a suspicion that Dolly did not get real
Veritaserum to slip into Harry's drink. Now why would Snape do
that? It's the acting bit again -  Dolly isn't in on it - she'd take
it seriously. Not like "DD & Snape - The Best Double-act in the WW." 

> 
> Potioncat:
> Neri, Sigune and others have come up with good lists of possible 
> motives. But whatever it is, it has to be an intense reason.  
> Someone argued against revenge because that doesn't indicate a moral 
> reason.  But we don't know if his leaving LV is a moral reason. (JKR 
> has warned us about him.)  
> 

Kneasy:
True -  Neri filled the screen with possible motivations, but IMO most
(all except one, in fact) are insufficient to explain why Snape does
what he does and acts how he acts - it's revenge pure and simple.

It's such a simple motive that can explain so much. Other theories get
into relationships with James, Lily, switch to convoluted explanations
of how this affects the way he treats Harry and so on..and on...and on.
But start from the simple premise that Snape hates and fears Voldy
to an intense degree and it gets much simpler. Harry is  the means
of Snapes retribution via DD's plan.  But Harry has to be trained and
given an edge - what better way than by an genuine dyed-in-the-wool
exDE?

All this is at  DD's instruction. DD knows exactly what is going on
between Harry and Snape, though he may misjudge the intensity of
Harry's feelings. Hardly  surprising - for someone who is thought
to be Harry's mentor and guide he doesn't talk to him much, does he?
Basically DD is in the business of forging Weapon!Harry. He has a
war to win. Much more is at stake than bruised feelings on Harrys
part; much more is at stake than just Harry. If it came to the crunch
would DD sacrifice the whole of wizarding society to save Harry?
No. Harry is the means to save that society, he is not the alternative
to it. And if DD answered differently he is the wrong person to be
leading the fight. Harry is expendable *so long as they win*. In fact,
everyone is expendable so long as Voldy is  defeated - even DD.
> 
> Potioncat:
> Also, (memory again) LV says "one who I think has left me 
> forever"...seems to indicate LV thinks that person had a reason to 
> leave.
> 
> I think it was this thread where some discussed Snape's role in the 
> final scenes...well, it isn't "Professor Snape and the Dunderheads" 
> we're reading. We couldn't possibly learn as much about him as we 
> want to (friend or foe)  He has something important to contribute, 
> but as in the earlier books, he'll slip off the pages sometime 
> before the end. (Hopefully to return to his dungeon.)

Kneasy:
Yep. Could be a bit of supporting evidence.

As to the final scenes, well, I've postulated that Snape will get rubbed
out before the end - probably saving Harry's skin after some foolish
but hardly untypical act of stupidity. I just hope that he sees his revenge
as inevitable by that time. I can't imagine him living on, becoming an
old curmudgeon, grumping about Hogwarts.

But as he lies breathing his last, as Harry leans over him his last words,
spoken with a sneer, will be "Get on with it Potter. Do something right
for  once."