Who stuns Sirius? & Fake Death (was Re: The Veil)

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 111209

Laurasia:

But if she wanted us all to believe that Sirius was dead, she 
wouldn't go on
about how easy
it was to write an apparent death scene, right?

We already knew that she had issues writing Cedric's death scene. If, 
all of a
sudden, an
actual main character appears to die and there was no fuss made, we'd 
all wonder
why.
The fact that she has told people how upset she 'was' proves that we 
are meant
to take
note of how upsetting it is. In other words- the perfect bluff.

I think that it's perfectly possible that she is just 'playing the 
part' of an
aggrieved Sirius
fan until he returns.

Snow:

JKR may have been grieving for Harry's sake on the part of Sirius' 
death. We have heard her state over and over again about how much 
Harry has to be put through and that she wouldn't want to be him. JKR 
could have been saddened by what Harry has to go through because of 
the death of Sirius and not the death of the character itself. 

Laurasia:

Mind you, then there are real issues with why Dumbledore told Harry 
all the
stuff about
the prophecy. Dumbledore admits that keeping information from Harry 
was a really
bad
thing to do. Unless he doesn't know that Sirius is dead, he's setting 
himself up
to get more
of his possesions thrown at him. How can he parrot on about 'You 
should've known
before
this, I'm sorry' whilst being aware that Harry is once again 
suffering real pain
because
there is more information being with-held from him.?

Snow:

There is a lot of information being held from Harry, for what the 
keeper(s) of the information may feel, is for Harry's own good. The 
scene where Harry is talking to Lupin and Sirius in the fire in 
Umbridge's office, Lupin and Sirius look at one another knowing the 
truth about Snape but don't offer any other reason to Harry except 
they were young and foolish. Sounds a bit like a cop out statement to 
me and I think it sounded that way to Harry as well. They could have 
told him the real reason why they picked on Snape and I doubt it only 
had to do with grey undies. I'm pretty sure it is something the 
maurauders knew about Snape's embarrassing home life that caused them 
to mistreat him (Snape) like he was a low-life scum not worthy of the 
time of day.   

Laurasia:

I don't think it gels with Dumbledore at all. The only option must be 
that
Dumbledore
doesn't know that Sirius has faked his own death. Still, it seems 
plausible that
Sirius and
Lupin cooked up the scheme together over at Grimmauld Place.

Snow:

I had offered a theory, which I felt very feasible some time back in 
post: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/93618, 
where Tonks and Sirius, unknown to anyone else, had made a switch. 
The idea still floats (for me) for the reasons I stated in this post. 
Not very many people liked the idea at that time mainly because of 
JKR's comment as to how painful it was in writing Sirius' death

stating that it would be cruel to have had Harry grieve over a death 
that didn't actually happen. 

Laurasia:

I do love this Sirius-not-dead theory, however. It certainly isn't 
baseless. But
it also makes
Sirius a bit of a coward- he 'left' when Bellatrix Lestrange was 
still up and
about in AK
distance from his Godson. Surely Sirius doesn't consider his of fake!
death a
higher priority
than Harry's life?


BUT, as much as I like this theory, I think the most elaborate fan 
theories
spring out of
discontent with the actual text (Any Matix fans remember all those 
weird 15 000
word
explanations which arose after the vastly inferior 2nd movie?). If we 
all
currently felt that
there weren't any holes in the text, I doubt that this kind of theory 
would have
sprung up. I
think that Sirius is a lot of fans' favourite, and it's no secret 
that most
people have yet to
warm to the "sudden & unexpected, no clear consequence or benefit for 
Harry yet"
death
scenario. As yet, it's difficult to see the reason why it's okay and 
necessary
for Sirius to die.

Snow:

This answer lies, imo, in that puzzling tormenting two-way mirror 
question on JKR's web site: 
Why did Harry have to forget the mirror he had been given by Sirius 
in 'Order of the Phoenix'?
"
The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the 
other hand, will help more than you think. You'll have to read the 
final books to understand that!"

Why wouldn't the mirror have helped
Harry would have found Sirius to 
be alive and not proceeded to the Ministry
Sirius would not have 
followed Harry and would not have gone through the veil
Harry would 
not have been possessed by Voldemort and would not have found the 
power in which to stop Voldemort's possession and therefore could not 
continue to the next stage of his vanquishing Voldemort forever 
ability. 
How could the mirror help more now that Sirius is gone
I guess that 
would depend on where Sirius has gone and what information he has 
that would help Harry or did Sirius even take his mirror with him to 
the Ministry? How could the mirror help if Sirius doesn't have his or 
if he is actually dead?
 
Laurasia:

It's oh-so-mean for JKR to with-hold this reason for another book. 
We're all
desperate to
know! But it maybe foolish from a narrative point of view to leave 
such a huge
subplot
unresolved. Harry certainly doesn't reach any resolution with 
Sirius's death at
the end of
OotP. And I would *hate* to see him spending all of HBP being angry 
and
depressed over
Cedric's death because we've seen that already!

Snow:

>From the way JKR talks, Harry wont have much time to be angry about 
anything more than what is happening to him now. It sounds as though 
Harry wont even have a chance to say hello or goodbye to the Dursleys 
so
something very unusual is going to happen right at the beginning 
of summer holiday that wont give him much time to think about Sirius 
let alone grieve over him.

Laurasia:

If Sirius returns (via two-way mirror or whatever) it has to be at a 
point when
Harry has
fully gotten over his death. If not, it suggests that death isn't 
final or
absolute. It says that
you *can* be desperate and hang on and dwell on memories and not get 
on with
your life.
I doubt JKR is going to put this theme in her book (Motto of the 
Mirror of
Erised: you
cannot dwell on dreams and forget to live).

Snow:

It may not be the motto of the mirror but that mirror, imo, is bound 
to hold some key to the eventuality of the story. It reminds me so 
much of through the looking glass because of its backwards writing as 
if to say you are looking at it from the other side of the mirror. 

Laurasia:

Does this mean Harry will get over Sirius ASAP? I doubt it. He dreamt 
about
Cedric for
months. That only leaves Harry spending a normal amount of time 
grieving- months
at
least. Which means Sirius may not reappear until Book 7!! Eep! If we 
were
discontent with
Sirius dying for no good reason and only a few days had passed in the 
book, how
are we
all going to be if Sirius's death shows no signs of benfitting the 
story for a
year of book
time?! This is why I think it may be a foolish narrative device.

Of course, we will all immediately forgive JKR the instant Sirius 
waltzes on
from stage
right.

Snow:

I know I would! I try not to become so emotional about any of the 
characters that I can't see the possibility of them being someone I 
didn't think they could be, like ESE Lupin, but I do have a soft spot 
for Sirius. 

Laurasia:

The only thing I am sure of is that Sirius went through that veil for 
a reason.
We don't
know what the reason is yet, but this fake!death scenario certainly 
creates a
great reason
for sending Sirius through.

Snow:

I know my Sirius/Tonks scenario is different than the scenario you 
are speaking of but the fake!death result would be the same. I like 
the idea that this fake!death was set up because at least some of the 
Order knew that Harry could be baited in such a way by Voldemort and 
that they would have had some type of plan to ensure the outcome. 
Lupin and Sirius were well aware that Harry had to take Occlumency 
lessons and why they were so important. They also knew that Snape had 
stopped giving the lessons and that Harry's mind was now wide open to 
intrusion. I would hope that Lupin and Sirius or possibly even Tonks 
would have thought of an alternate plan incase this happened. 

Snow---Fifteen month old Harry looks out over his crib
sees Voldemort 
take aim but before he can say Avada
Harry says "I'm rubber your glue 
whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"