Severus Snape: The grudge and the very long LOLLIPOPS biography...

[eloise_herisson]

No: HPFGUIDX 111264

> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> 
wrote:
>   "JKR herself has hinted that there's more to it than that through
> Hagrid, we just don't know what the other factor or factors are."


Wow! You had me rushing around in excitement there, wondering if 
Tabouli were back!

Just to clarify, this has gone right back to the beginnings of the 
history of the "Snape loved  Lily" theory on this board. This post 
was made back in November 2001,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/28782

and is linked in the Snape FAQ

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/snape.html

on our Fantastic Posts site

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/


Emily:
> I'd be interested to know what people think those other factors 
might
> be.  As riveting as romance is, even a mangled one like that 
proposed
> here, I hate to think that every big decision Snape has made was 
based
> on a crush.  Yikes.


Eloise:
Yikes indeed. I never crewed aboard the good ship LOLLIPOPS, though I 
did fear that I was being drawn ever closer in her wake. To be fair, 
I think that the LOLLIPOPS folks would see it as more than a *crush*. 
People *do* do extreme things in the name of love, even unrequited 
love.


Tabouli: 
> > "At this point, Harry hasn't done *anything* to Snape."   
> 

Emily: 
> He's the son of the man who (in Snape's mind) ruined Snape's life. 
> It's as if the guy who stole everything from you, that you believe 
you
> should have had, had a son who turned out to be even more loved and
> esteemed than your original nemesis without even trying.  Meanhile,
> you are still risking your life and happiness (for reasons unknown)
> for his well being, and he doesn't even know about it.  No one gives
> *you* any credit for that, while your worst enemy's son gets to be
> everyone's savior just by being alive.  How's that for starters.


Eloise:
Oh, yes, absolutely. The only thing is that we then have to go back a 
stage further and ask *why* was James Snape's nemesis? The available 
evidence suggest that the animosity goes right back to day one, just 
like Harry's and Draco's. This suggests to me that it has nothing 
whatsoever to do with Lily as I can't imagine Snape developing 
feelings for a girl of the same age at the tender age of 11. My own 
suspicion is that there was already some kind of Potter/Snape history 
that went back at least one generation.

However, to be fair, that doesn't meant that Snape *couldn't* have  
developed feelings for Lily later, either as icing to the cake, or 
indeed even more important to him than any preceding animosity. In 
fact, Lily could have become a desirable object precisely *because* 
she was James' (I hadn't thought of that one before). I have yet to 
be convinced, but to me that is the most likely scenario for Snape 
developing feelings for Lily.

Tabouli: 
> > "There even a tiny hint from JKR in a chat I once read (no, no 
idea
> which one, though no doubt someone will be able to say).  I think 
she
> was was asking for questions from an audience and someone asked if
> Snape would fall in love.  JKR laughed and asked what made him/her
> think of that, and said it was an interesting idea and s/he would 
find
> out why later.  Or something like that which suggested there might 
in
> fact be something in it."  


Emily: 
> Oh *no*... Pink Flamingo, anyone?

LOL. Well, as noted in the Snape section of Hypothetic Alley
(a compendium of various named/personified theories, again found in 
the Fantastic Posts site)

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/hypotheticalley.html

the Pink Flamingo is a rallying point for both Snape SHIPpers and 
anti-Snape SHIPpers.

For those who don't know,

>>The flamingo is a symbol of Snape SHIPping. It derives from the 
statement that giving Severus Snape a romantic plotline "would be 
like putting a single pink flamingo in the middle of a Gothic 
cathedral." <<


Tabouli: 
> >  "Severus can't help noticing one of James' greatest fans is a 
young
> redhead called Lily Evans, who has often vied with him for top 
student
> in Charms.  ...treats him with far more respect and reason than her
> fellow Gryffindors..."   
> 

Emily: 
> Yeah, except that Lily loathed James in OOTP, remember?  Greatest 
fan,
> huh?  I'd like to see from where you got that idea.


Eloise:
Well, in Tabouli's defence, as she hasn't been around here in ever 
such a long time (come back Tabouli, we old-timers miss you!), she 
did write this over two years before the publication of OoP. I think 
that revelation about James and Lily caught all of us unawares. And 
of course in the head-in-the-fire scene when Harry states to Sirius 
that Lily hated James, Sirius just dismisses it, 

"Nah, she didn't".

Again, to be fair, we can't really divine what any of those three 
felt about each other from that little scene in the penseive when 
emotions were running high. In fact if we don't want to admit our 
attraction to someone, even to ourselves, it might well manifest as 
hostility.

Tabouli/Emily: 
>  "...but as Lily is always around, he dares not be anything but 
polite
> to him."
> 
> 
> Uhhh, really?
> 
>   "...his unconvincing attempts to be suave and fawning around 
her..."
> 
> 
> Yes, I'd say calling her a filty mudblood would be pretty darn
> unconvincing.


Eloise:
Again, this is with the benefit of reading OoP which Tabouli didn't 
have.

> 
><snip Tabouli's scenario of how Snape is ordered to kill James and 
comes to an epiphany> 

Emily:
> Ah, pulling a Javert on us, is he?  Nnnooo, I *don't* think so. The
> last time I heard about something like this happening was in Les
> Miserables, and the poor confused inspector ended up drowning 
himself
> rather than reconcile his past.  No matter what anyone says about
> Snape's ability to hide his emotions, (which, I must say, sometimes
> isn't that evident) I think that if he had an epiphany of that 
degree
> we would be dealing with a whole different character.  ...But maybe
> that's just me.


Eloise:
Yes, well, I don't like the sudden epiphany thing either. A desire to 
reconcile Snape's character *now* with his DE past and to find some 
continuity of character was what led Marina to develop George and I 
to develop Diana. Boring as some may find these theories <g>, I find 
the idea of the fully committed DE suddenly seeing the light and 
converting a whole lot less interesting than the struggle of a 
complex and unhappy man to survive both physically and emotionally in 
the circumstances in which he finds himself.

Nevertheless, although I don't see Snape going off and drowning 
himself, I *can* see him putting himself in a position where he knows 
his life will be forfeit, either to simply do what he knows what is 
his duty or because stranded in limbo, as essentially a dark magician 
in a world of 'light' magic he has no other resolution.

~Eloise