Snape's DE past

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 111393

I can tell from your answers, Totorivers, that you were responding to 
me, but since you didn't include any of my post, my points got lost.  
I am re-inserting some of what I was asking about.


SSSusan previously:
>>I don't have an objection per se with the possibility you've set out
in the first paragraph here--that there was no epiphany but that
Snape figured out he'd never gain power while w/ Voldy and didn't
care for that fact--but I don't see how that translates into DD
**accepting Snape back**. If it is all just about Snape going w/ the
person with whom he thought he'd gain most power, then why work with
DD? DD holds him in check; DD's not into gaining power for power's
sake. Wouldn't this frustrate Snape, too, and tempt him to either go
back to Voldy or set out on his own?

More importantly, for me, is this: "I trust Severus Snape." DD says
this more than once. Note it's not said as, "I trust Severus Snape
*as a spy*" or "I trust Severus Snape, but not enough to let him be a
spy," but simply "I trust Severus Snape." Would DD trust him so
implicitly if he were just a power-hungry, switch-sides-willy-nilly
kind of guy?<<

Totorivers responded:
> Ok, this is easy..... Dumbledore gave power to Snape. He most
> likely helped him gain book about potions, plus Snape *is* an
> authority figure at Hogwarts. Snape knows that when he is with
> Dumbledore he isn't hated or made fun of. Snape has *power* during
> the years Voldemort isn't there. Before, Snape wanted power as a DE,
> but realised it was impossible. Plus, a non fanatical DE is soon
> dead, so he had to lie. And if *helping* Dumbledore gives him power,
> then why not. It explains why Dumbledore let Snape act like he does.
> In the same way, Dumbledore does trust Snape, as Snape has what he
> wants, and knows that betraying Dumbledore would be a very bad idea.
> Dumbledore is right to trust Snape. But where do you take the idea
> that Snape helped with his spying? Through the books, Snape has been
> a liability for Dumbledore, and Dumbledore doesn't care, as it gives
> Snape a chance for redemption -a chance Snape didn't take yet.


SSSusan again:
I still don't see this.  DD probably gave Snape a book about potion-
making, and that turned him into the skilled potions MASTER that he 
is??  I think you underestimate Severus.

If Snape is all about WANTING POWER and felt he wasn't going to get 
anywhere with Voldy, then how is the type of power he has at 
Hogwarts/under DD *satisfying* to him?  He gets to teach a bunch of 
teenaged "dunderheads," live in a boarding school, and have his 
preferences squashed by DD's decisions [wanting to expel Harry & Ron 
after the Whomping Willow; wanting to assume Harry was guilty when 
Mrs. Norris was petrified, etc.].  Snape has **a measure** of power 
at Hogwarts, but he certainly doesn't have tons of it.  

I also don't see anything in your response which explains why DD 
trusts Snape.  You say "it explains" but I don't understand what "it" 
is.  Snape wants power and DD gives him a measure of it, and that's 
enough to trust him??  It wouldn't be, in my book!  I'd be assuming 
the guy would turn his back on me as soon as a better opportunity 
came along.  [Lucius Malfoy, anyone, in the years Voldy was gone?]  
No, I fully believe there is MUCH more to the story of Snape's turn 
away from Voldy/towards DD.


Totorivers, previously:
>>>From cannon, James is known to not only bother Sevvie but loads of 
Slytherin: there is no rivalry in James part, except he is said to 
hate the dark arts. He is also *helped* along the way by Sirius, who 
hates Snape for being what he could have been...<<<

SSSusan asked:
>>I must have missed the bit where canon showed us James
bothered "loads" of Slytherins. I recall hearing that Snape was part
of a "gang of Slytherins" but I don't recall hearing that James
pestered loads of Slytherins. Can you show me where I missed this?

I also don't understand what you mean about Sirius hating Snape "for
being what he could have been". Does the 'he' in that sentence refer
to Sirius or to Snape? If Sirius, I really don't get it....<<

Totorivers replied:
> As for Sirius, he sees in Snape the perfect Black, the boy who
> goes into the dark arts because he wants power, and he is too weak
> to grab power in the normal way. Same thing with potion, does being 
> a potion master mean anything? Snape just made an effort that few
> others did, but he has never shown true depth of character.. As I
> said, Snape is a broken man that Dumbledore pities. He is the
> perfect exemple for an uredeemable character.


SSSusan:
You keep talking about canon, but I don't see your canon evidence for 
this.  HOW do you know Snape has shown no true depth of character?  
DD says Snape turned away from Voldy *at great personal risk*.  DD 
sends him on missions [yes, whether spying or not is debatable] that 
are clearly dangerous to him [see end of GoF].  Snape saved Harry's 
life even though he can't stand the snot.  THESE are all in canon.  
As is his ability with potions [wolfsbane, seeing what's wrong w/ a 
potion just by glancing at it,...].

Until I see **canon** for dumb Snape, unintelligent Snape, mediocre 
Snape, no-depth Snape, I'm not buying it.

Siriusly Snapey Susan