Theory of theme (was Re: What did Riddle want from Ginny?)

[caspenzoe]

No: HPFGUIDX 111559

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sevenhundredandthirteen" 
<sevenhundredandthirteen at y...> wrote:
> Caspen wrote:
> <big snip>
> >"magic" does, in fact, exist in JKR'S view - but (this is
> >JKR'S raelly brilliant point) only on a spiritual, as opposed to
> >physical, plane. 
> <snip> 
> [The HP books are anti-fundamentalist even for]
> >HP fans who, for instance, have become certain that beheadings of
> >major characters are essential to JKR's story!
> 
> Laurasia:
> 
> I agree with the premise of what you've said: I do believe HP 
> encourages the realisation of a spiritual plane of existence 
> which is above the physical and mental. And I do believe the 
> magic in the story symbolises this spiritual level of the 
> world.
> 
> However, I disagree with the interpretation that this has 
> all been consciously arranged by JKR, but yet the plots of 
> her books haven't been.  I have the exact opposite opinion 
> to you: think the plot is arranged, and the metaphysics 
> coincidental.
> 
> I think JKR is first and foremost a writer. She has been 
> writing books since the age of 6. She has written other 
> books which are unpublished. And she has intentions to 
> write books after HP is concluded. She has told us, on 
> numerous occasion what type of story-telling she likes, 
> for example: books that don't leave loose ends; stories
> where all the rules are established at the very start 
> (like The Simpsons). 
> She has told us what types of books she doesn't like, 
> for example books where the character is stuck at one age 
> for all eternity (like The Famous Five).
> 
> It seems natural that a writer who believes these things 
> will write a book which events are meaningful to the overall 
> plot and where there is nothing incidental which delays 
> the story (everything is relevant), where we see rules of 
> the universe established early on (foreshadowing), and  
> in which the characters can grow up and change and be 
> affected by the world around them (Harry's changing 
> personality). 
> 
> This is the type of writer JKR *is*.  Or else why did Ron 
> have a pet rat called Scabbers in the first two books? 
> Why did Harry Ron and Hermione make Polyjuice Potion in CoS? 
> And why was Harry so deeply affected by Cedric's death 
> that he became rash and reckless and charged off to the 
> Ministry of Magic without thinking rationally?
> 
> Saying that any major characters' death is not actually 
> relevant to the story is going against these three of 
> JKR's own statements. Sirius's death must either become 
> relevant later on when he returns in a different form, 
> OR be used to foreshadow a way in which the Veil can be 
> used, OR be so distressing for Harry that he changes the 
> way he lives his life in a way which allows him to 
> ultimately triumph. 
> 
> If Sirius' death is really nothing at all, then JKR is 
> either really stupid, a really bad writer, or else she 
> doesn't actually care about the three things she has told 
> us (but which have been expressed on numerous occasions). 
> It also means she has been directly lying to us: From her 
> Website FAQ -"Why did Harry have to forget the mirror he 
> had been given by Sirius in 'Order of the Phoenix'?"
> 
> I don't believe JKR is highly skilled and brilliant in the 
> field of philosophy, I just believe she was lucky and 
> inadvertently hit on a theme.  
> 
> I think *any* story which uses fantastical "magic" of any 
> sort which is beyond the realms of science is unconsciously 
> tapping into the spiritual level. There are thousands of them, 
> but because there is such a long history of these fantasy 
> stories and myth-making I think many authors refer to this 
> level without realising it. It comes with the territory. 
> 
> Any fantasy book suggests that there is a higher plane of 
> existence which does not obey the physical laws of Earth, 
> that is the very nautre of what defines fanstay as a genre. 
> Even the video game Final Fantasy taps into this theme. Just 
> because HP shows it, I see no reason to suggest JKR *meant* it. 
> 
> If JKR had purposely decided to write a book which had the 
> overriding them of anti-fundamentalist/anti-literalist then, 
> like you said, the idea of us readers convincing ourselves 
> that "just because Sirius is dead there must be a reason for 
> it" is amazingly absurd.  But I see too much evidence that as 
> an author she actively *enjoys* this- JKR congratulates 
> readers on picking up on these tiny points, eg Aberforth. 
> Therefore, the only option I can see is that JKR *accidentally* 
> included the theme. The theme must have grown organically 
> inside the fantasy context that JKR has put Harry into (like 
> every other fantasy book I have ever read)
> 
> But, like I said above, I agree that there is a metaphysical 
> level of magic present and I think the best stories are those 
> which do tap into this higher domain. JKR's story is so popular 
> and works on so many levels from children to academics because 
> it is a very good example of issues beyond the physical 
> domain of the universe.
> 
> ~<(Laurasia)>~

I apprecate your response Laurasia, but I'm a littl confused. 
Nowhere have I said that "[although] ... the magic in the story 
symbolises this spiritual level of the world.... that this has all 
been consciously arranged by JKR, but yet the plots of her books 
haven't been." Nor did I say that "...any major characters' death is 
not actually relevant to the story." If I thought so, perhaps I'd be 
inclined to be more of an HP fundamentalist. 

As for the JKR's specific creative process, one can only really 
speculate, but I think there is more than ample evidence that JKR is 
a t least more than passingly familiar with "the field of 
philosophy." However, and more to the point, evaluating an 
author's "brilliance" based upon speculation about how consciously 
or not the themes developed in his/her work are, is just plain 
absurd. 

If fiction authors worked on a purely conscious level they'd be 
technical writers, not artists. As it is very few of them, 
particularly in the fantasy genre, IMO rise to any level meriting 
the term artist (and are in fact just technicians applying 
formulas), although JKR, conscious or only semi-counscious or 
completely unconscious, if you like, does. (Hence, by the way, I 
certainly do not agree with you that "...*any* story which uses 
fantastical "magic" of any sort which is beyond the realms of 
science is unconsciously tapping into the spiritual level." A lot of 
it, IMO is just silly trash). 

Herman Melville's works have been analyzed in terms of alchemical 
symbolism, but nowhere have I read any assertions of great expertise 
in the occult on his part. Does that undermine his work? Hardly! The 
quality and effectiveness of the artist's expression of thematic 
content and the artist's degree of "consciousness" of any particular 
theme are entirely separate issues. 

Finally, whole psycholgical and artistic theories are base upon the 
hypothesis of the inevitability of recurring themes in very diverse 
human experience. The idea behind Jung's notion of archetypes, for 
instance, is that certain human concerns show up repeatedly in the 
cultural and artistic production of all humans. Alchemy is one 
manifestaion of certain spiritual ideas, and HP is another. The fact 
that there are similarities dervies as much (if not more) from the 
fact that their respective creators are human as from any 
consciously applied formula. 

Therefore, your conclusion that "...the only option I can see is 
that JKR *accidentally* included the theme" is not only, once again, 
an example of another very "fundamentalist" view ,expressed on this 
board, but also simply illogical. There are many options, degrees of 
options, combinations of options, and combinations of degrees of 
options, etc. 

Caspen