Conspiracies and re-assessments

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 111708

Kneasy (snipped)
> > An unwillingness to even consider the merits of a theory that has 
> > an arguable canonical base (even though it may eventually turn 
> > out to be wrong) shows a deplorable lack of intellectual 
> > curiosity IMO. What's the point of entering a discussion with pre-
> > formed,never-to-be-modified-under-any-circumstances-I-don't-care-
> > what-can-be-derived-from-canon conclusions clutched firmly to the 
> > bosom?
> > 
> > Posters propose theories and they expect them to be dissected,
> > challenged, rejected or modified. Dismissal with nothing but a 
> > trite phrase is not an honest option; it's a flaunting of 
> > personal prejudices in an attempt to by-pass discussion - and 
> > discussion is what this site is supposed to be about.
 
 
Jen: 
> Aren't we all guilty of having at least one opinion about the 
> characters or plot that no one can convince us of otherwise? It 
> wouldn't be very enjoyable to constantly see-saw back and forth 
> over every little detail or characterization, to the point you 
> can't determine what the story is about. Kneasy, you obviously 
> firmly believe, as said in your essay, that these books are a 
> mystery at heart, full of betrayl and conspiracy. I don't view that 
> idea as the primary theme of the book, even though it's certainly a 
> writing tool that JKR employs with good results. Me, I tend more 
> toward the Hero's journey view of things, with lots of twists and 
> turns to keep the reader involved and surprised. 
> 
> I can still consider other interpretations and even modify my own 
> somewhat, without giving up one of my steadfast beliefs. For 
> instance, I reject Guilty!Dumbledore or Puppetmaster!Dumbledore, 
> but reading posts about DD's motives has forced me to think about 
> his true role in the story, see his failings & manipulations. Same 
> with Sirius. OTOH, I had little interest in Snape prior to joining 
> this group. Even though I'm still not fascinated by the character, 
> I've developed an interest in Snape as a pivotal character to the 
> series rather than just Tormentor!Snape (I just noticed 'tormentor' 
> has the base word of 'mentor'--that fits how I see Snape now, as a 
> terrible mentor but a mentor nonetheless <g>).


SSSusan:
[chanting, "Must NOT just write, 'Me, too, Jen!'  MUST NOT just 
write, 'Me, too, Jen!'"]  I must preface my remarks by saying that I 
agree pretty much with every comment Jen made in her post.  

That said, my points here are two-fold.  One, I agree with Jen that 
being unwilling to waver on a position or two is understandable.  
Where would we all be if Pippin threw up her hands and said, "I 
give!" re: ESE!Lupin and vampire!Snape?  I doubt--pending new info in 
book 6--I'll EVER believe ESE!Lupin, but it's fun to read her posts 
anyway.  And that's part of the fun when somebody puts forth evidence 
that seems to contradict Pippin--I ask myself, "Aha!  How will she 
deal with THIS?"  And by golly, she always does seem to find a 
*logical* way of doing so.  Amazes me every time.  I still don't 
agree with her, but she joins in the intellectual exercise.  [I hope 
I'm not embarrassing you, Pippin.]  And I think that IS part of your 
point, Kneasy--that it's much more fun when someone WILL put thought 
into his/her position and argue it based on canon and reason, not 
just "because I think so" (or worse, "because I 'KNOW' so.").  

That said, some of us will probably just remain QUIET during some 
discussions because we really DON'T want to have to argue what's just 
a strong feeling about a character or storyline.  We can listen & 
learn and still not be swayed.  And sometimes we might be swayed, 
sometimes we might at least question our opinion or the motivations 
of a character--and all that's fun! 

My second, related point is that it *is* frustrating when there are 
people who seem unwilling to continue a debate once canon 
alternatives or canon refutation has been offered.  Do you know what 
I mean?  When someone does choose to put forth an idea, theory, 
hypothesis or stance, and you've got canon to argue against it, but 
the person doesn't seem interested in further debate.  Now, this 
*never* happens with Del--she'll argue with you 'til the cows come 
home [right, Del? :-)]--but (and not to toot my own horn or anything, 
but) I have offered canon refutation or differing interpretations 
based on canon to people and have had the "discussion" just end.  
I'll grant you that that can be frustrating.

My, this is probably really jumbled, because I've rushed through it.  
My apologies if it doesn't make much sense.  I guess here's the crux 
of it for me:  people may well have a few opinions that they just 
want to hold to and don't want to debate or discuss them.  BUT if a 
person is willing to put his/her idea out there, it sure would be 
nice if s/he would stick around for the debate!

Siriusly Snapey Susan