Snape and Lupin's Character Arcs (was: Lupin's Char Arc)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 119102


Boyd:
> OK, I intentionally skipped Snape in my previous post on Character 
Arcs simply because he is so loved and/or reviled, depending on who 
you ask. Strong feelings, still no proof of what he is. Lots of folks 
think he's ESE or at least a "bad guy."

Alla:

I am sure you know my position by now - I don't believe he is ESE as 
in Voldemort's cervant,but I also don't believe that he is a good guy.
Good guys don't do to human beings half of his size what he does to 
Harry and Neville, IMO.



Boyd: 
> But here's why I bring up Snape in response to the Lupin thread: I 
think Snape makes a better mentor for Harry in books 6+7.
"That's #$%* ridiculous!" you say. "Harry hates him! He despises 
Harry! He couldn't even teach him Occlumency, for heaven's sake!" All 
true. But look at his character arc.
We are introduced to him in SS/PS as a scary looking and mean 
teacher. Harry instantly thinks he's ESE and is sure he's the villain 
trying to steal the Stone. But--and here I ask that for the next 
minute you take JKR's prose at face value--we find out he has ben 
helping to hide it, and is DD's trusted friend.
 
> In the ensuing books, JKR has continued making it ever clearer that 
not only does DD trust Snape, but that Harry should, as well. Witness 
his counter-curses during Harry's quiddich match, or the secret 
orders from DD, or the scene in Umbridge's office when Harry 
successfully (as we learn later) warns Snape that Sirius is at the 
MoM. Yes, Snape is presented as perhaps the most flawed of the good 
guys; he was even a DE. But he has apparently worked tirelessly on 
behalf of DD& the Order, and while seemingly despising Harry on some 
level, still manages to want to keep Harry safe. And the main reason 
he is unsuccessful in teaching Harry Occlumency is: Harry.
So how has Snape changed? He has become (in Harry's eyes) more 
trustworthy.Always nasty in temperament, but on the right side where 
it counts, and Harry is beginning to notice this. So where does that 
lead Snape's character in 6+7? To finally being fully trusted by 
Harry, probably after the death of DD.

Alla:
Well, I won't say that this is riduculous, because I see what are you 
saying , but I disagree. I see Snape's character arc differently than 
you do.

Indeed , Jo set him up quite nicely as villain in the first book and 
indeed Harry knows that he is on the good side now, BUT there wasa  
huge setback between them at the end of OOP. There is no trust on 
Harry's part. There is that blasted "He'll never forgive Snape ever" 
We as readers know that Harry will eventually forgive him, but Harry 
does not.

There should be reparation of their relationship BEFORE any mentor-
student relationship could be established. And I will argue that A 
LOT of time will pass before it happen, if it ever happens at all. I 
will argue closer to the end of bookk 7, actually.
So, No, I don't think that Snape will be in any position to give 
mentoring to Harry and hopefully Dumbledore will not try to force 
anything between them, allowing time, or I will officially label 
Dumbledore as an idiot in my book. :o)


Boyd: 
>Yes, Harry will need a mentor, all right, and Snape's character 
awaits Harry's final gift of full trust. A match made in heaven...or 
at least Jo's notebook.

Alla:

Sorry, I don't mind Snape participating in harry's training 
eventually, but I hope that he is not going to be his only mentor.

Boyd:

But Lupin? Why would that happen? Lupin was simply another example of 
not trusting a book by its cover: looked shabby and a bit mysterious, 
but then seemed good (and a friend of Harry's father!), then turned 
out to be flawed by his Lycanthropy although it's not his fault. A 
sad figure, indeed.
It has been said that he is distant, passive. Yes and yes. But did he 
become less so? No, in fact in his last scene he is still distant, 
accepting of his fate as the sad castoff.


Alla:

Because I am one of those sentimental types, who believe that Harry's 
mentor should eventually give him some emotional support, besides 
preparing him for the battle with Voldy and I think that Snape is in 
no position ot give Harry that, neither will Harry accept that type 
of support from Snape. Lupin is in MUCH better position to do that as 
someone whom Harry trusts and loves already.

I will argue that he did became less passive in the last scene, 
because he did interfere on harry's behalf. Maybe closer relationship 
with Harry will help him become more assertive.