Bloodlines & Social Order Backstory (Was: Another Flint)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 119283


Carol earlier:
> > First my apologies for being unclear. I certainly didn't mean that
*you* were rewriting the story, and I'd be the last person to
criticize theorizing or speculation on any point <snip>.
> >
> > I meant that JKR, via her narrator and the various characters,
established Colin Creevey and the other victims of the basilisk as
Muggleborns in CoS. *She* would have to rewrite the story to give them
a different heritage if she thought it was important to do so, but
she'd have to go to a lot of trouble to explain how the basilisk and
Tom (or Ginny) got it wrong.
> >
> > I agree that a lot of attention has been focused on Dennis
Creevey's size <snip>, and I'm sure we'll see more of both
> > Creevey brothers. I'm also sure that Dennis Creevey's size will
play a fairly important role. <snip> But, IMO, there's no need to
change what we've been told about their heritage to do so. After all,
we've yet to be told why Flitwick and Dedalus Diggle are tiny. Maybe,
like Hagrid, Professor Flitwick will be revealed to have a nonhuman
parent. But the Creeveys have been established as Muggleborns, and I
think it would be more trouble than it's worth *to JKR* to explain how
not only the Creeveys themselves but Ginny and Tom and apparently
McGonagall and Dumbledore were wrong about victims being Muggleborns.
> 
charme responded:
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, however we differ on an important point
<snip>, the one being that JKR would have to "rewrite" anything to do
with the social blood classifications and monikers  she's established.
I think there's more to that rationale than we've been told, and this
may be part of the intent of the next book. I might also mention that
in my mind, there has to be more a backstory not only with bloodline
geneaology, but also history around the creature classification 
denoted to elves, goblins, and centaurs simply because they are
referenced repeatedly  in all of the books and more importantly in the
DoM chapters of OoP. Add to that the revelation that giants and
wizards married, wizards and Muggles [married], and one has to wonder
that through some of the families bloodlines, if there aren't other
creatures who have been in the mix in the genealogy in 
> some way. All it takes is the six degrees of seperation argument
applied to genetics, then all manners of possibilities exist.
Otherwise, why introduce half giants, and the various allusions to:
> 
> appearing "troll" like (Flint),
> tiny (Colin, Dennis, Flitwick),
> large (Madame Maxime)
> loping (the new character in HPB, which makes me connect loping with
lions)
> duck footed & round shouldered (Krum)
> 
> I'm sure there are others and would love to list them all.
> 
> I also note Ron's comments in CoS that state that wizards would have
died out if they hadn't started to marry Muggles - might that be the
same for the other races like elves and goblins? Add this to why
statues of supposed *creatures* would appear in the MoM along with
wizards who believe their races to be beneath them? DD alludes to an
answer when talking to Harry in his office after the DoM battle, by
saying for too long wizards have mistreated and abused their fellows
and are reaping their reward - and the statues in the MoM depict and
are describe to the reader as almost a "greater than thou" attitude of
dominance over them. <snip> Since JKR has referenced racial inequality
and WW2 in her comments on various interviews, chats and her website,
I can only surmise there's more backstory to be generated to these
references.


Carol responds:
It seems to me that you're connecting two different elements of the
story, 1) the prejudice against Muggles and Muggleborns that permeates
Slytherin House and partially motivates the DEs (it was the idea of
defending that ideology that attracted poor deluded little Regulus
Black) and 2) the separate prejudice against nonhuman magical
creatures like house-elves and centaurs that seems to be common
throughout the WW. (Even Hermione, despite her good intentions and
Muggle upbringing, misunderstands both groups.)

There's no question in my mind that the fountain in the MoM is
significant in its depiction of the WW's idealized view of witches and
wizards in relation to other magical beings, and its destruction is
equally significant. And certainly JKR wants us to sympathize with
Hermione's opposition to house-elf slavery, if not with her methods
for solving the problem.

But I don't see the need to reveal that the Muggleborns in CoS weren't
really Muggleborns (Hermione, for example, certainly was) as in any
way necessary to the development of those separate but related themes.
For one thing, we've seen through both Hermione and Lily that the
prejudice against Muggleborns as inferior to other wizards is simply
mistaken. (IMO, the pureblood prejudice can be traced to a fear of
having Squib offspring if you marry a Muggle or a Muggleborn, but
that's neither here nor there.)

I see where you're going with the idea that Hagrid's and Madame
Maxime's size led to the revelation that they're both half-giant and
played into the prejudice thread, and I see why you might think that
the Creevey brothers' size will end in a similar revelation. But I
really hope JKR won't repeat the same device again. We've already been
there and we've got the point. Besides, as I've said twice already,
the unlikelihood of a house-elf marrying a Muggle is extreme, and
there would almost certainly be other features that distinguished
these two supposed Muggleborns from normal human children if their
mother were a house-elf (pointy ears and baldness, most notably). And
how could their mother possibly have passed as a Muggle all these
years? Impossible, IMO.

So if anyone's going to turn out to be half house-elf and half wizard,
it will almost certainly be Flitwick. That way JKR will simply have to
add a new element to his history (about which we know virtually
nothing) rather than rewriting the history of the Creevey brothers and
having to explain why they were mistaken for Muggleborns in CoS.

As for images associated with particular characters, we do have dog
imagery associated with Sirius, who turns out to be a dog animagus but
not, thankfully, half-dog. We also have bat imagery associated with
Snape, leading to the idea (vetoed by JKR) that he's a vampire. It may
be that his patronus is a bat, though I think it's Dumbledore. ;-) And
how about the comparison of Trelawney in her green sequined gown to a
glittering dragonfly? I don't think it suggests that she's a dragonfly
animagus, much less half dragonfly. It's just a metaphor. So is Krum's
duck-footed walk, which simply emphasizes his awkwardness on the
ground as opposed to his grace as a seeker. I don't think he's going
to be exposed as half-human (Durmstrang, IIRC, doesn't admit
Muggleborns and almost certainly wouldn't admit part humans).

And I think, though of course I could be wrong, that the narrator's
comparison of Marcus Flint to a troll and Millicent Bulstrode hag is
just a metaphor, just Harry's impression of these thoroughly
unpleasant people. (I dislike the idea of ugliness being associated
with evil, as in traditional fairy stories, but that's another problem
altogether.) It's most unlikely that a house which excludes
Muggleborns on principle would admit part-humans, who would be
infinitely more inferior in the eyes of Lucius or Draco Malfoy. Marcus
Flint is (IMO) almost as unlikely to be part troll as Snape is to be
part bat.

And Ron's remark that witches and wizards would have died out if they
hadn't intermarried with the much more numerous--and equally
human--Muggles does not extend, in my view, to the intermarriage with
nonhuman magical creatures, which seems to be extremely rare and
almost universally frowned upon.

So I agree completely that JKR will follow up on the themes of
inequality, slavery, and prejudice that have become more and more
prominent as the series progresses. In fact, it's altogether too clear
where JKR stands and where she wants the reader to stand on these
issues. A little more subtlety would have been nice. But I don't think
we're going to see the Creevey brothers revealed as something other
than Muggleborns to make her point. In fact, if she reveals them as
more talented than she's previously indicated, she'll have better
ammunition for her argument that Muggleborns are as good as any other
wizards.

Currently, Harry's team consists of himself, a half-blood; Hermione,
the single Muggleborn; two Weasleys and Neville Longbottom, all
purebloods; and Luna Lovegood, whose parents are/were a witch and a
wizard, so she's at least a half-blood in the same sense as Harry is
and may well be a pureblood. So there's a need for more Muggleborns on
the team. Why not the Creevey brothers, who are fanatically loyal,
especially tiny Dennis, whose reckless fearlessness rivals Sirius Black's?

If you want a part-human character other than Hagrid and Madame Maxime
who could play an important role in the Order in the upcoming books,
how about Fleur, who's one-quarter Veela? (How that's possible, I
won't ask.)

Carol, wondering if Bill Weasley is destined to be the father of a lot
of pretty, red-haired, temperamental little girls