Snape's hero complex

[curlyhornedsnorkack]

No: HPFGUIDX 119365


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "eloise_herisson"
<eloiseherisson at a...> wrote:
> 
> Snorky:
> > Would a hero complex explain Snape's actions thoughout the
> > series? I think he wants to be recognized as a great hero. 
> > I've looked around and I don't think this issue has been 
> > covered. 
> 
> Eloise:
> I think you're right and strangely enough this was pretty much the 
> subject of my own delurk (31259) although I didn't call it a hero 
> complex as such. Well, I'm not sure that I'd actually call it that 
> now, but I certainly think that a desire for recognition is a huge 
> part of what motivates him.


Snorky:
Your delurk was excellent, but (I hope you don't mind reminders of
your age) it was several books ago. I first got the idea reading
messages on Harry's hero complex, which was really starting to be
discussed after the publication of OOTP, and thought - "wait, what
about Snape's hero complex"? Recently I've seen several messages in
which people are still trying to make sense of Snape. I think this
discussion will continue to pop up. 

> > Snorky:
> > The following are some proofs of his works as a hero. When Snape 
> > was a student, he worked to expose a werewolf, and to expell some
> > school bullies at his own risk. 
> 
> Eloise:
> OK. I wouldn't exactly classify this as being heroic. I think he
> had a big problem with James et al and jealousy figures highly in 
> my understanding of that....

Snorky:
Yes, but he could have other (more heroic) motives as well, and a lot
of what we hear about his jealousy is secondhand. Snape at the time
was doing his best to be top dog, and perhaps top dog James didn't
like the competition either and was hostile. And the views of Snape
are given by people who possibly were afraid that Snape would prove
himself the better man. It would be pretty embarrassing for a hot shot
like James (I assume he had better clothes and possibly higher social
status than Snape) to be bested by a poor nobody like Snape.


> Eloise:
> ...In PS, we have no suggestion that Severus shares his mistrust 
> of Quirrell with D as he does later of Lupin. Why? I think that 
> he is desperate to be the one who protects the stone, who can 
> take it safely to D, thus declaring both his loyalty and his 
> claim to favoured child status. This is why he is so keen to keep 
> Harry out of the way. And then the dratted child does it again! 
> Similarly, he wants it to be he who catches Sirius.
 
Snorky:
It's possible, but he still risks his life in PS/SS (the dog biting
incident, taking on Quirrell in the forest), and it seems a bit too
much to risk for proof of loyalty and favoured child status. I don't
see why he would risk so much at this point in his life, when DD
doesn't even really talk much to Harry, and Snape's loyalty doesn't
seem to be doubted by DD. 

> Eloise:
> 6) In his dealings with Harry, Severus is obsessed with putting  
> him in his place, assuming that he will have ideas of grandeur, 
> that fame will go to his head. I think he is aware, as the Sorting 
> hat was, that Harry could have done well in Slytherin and fears that
> Harry himself might be open to corruption. Even worse, he is a rival
> in his relationship with D. D trusts Severus, but he favours Harry. 

Are you saying that Snape is doing the above (putting him in his
place, etcetera) to save Harry from corruption? Also, I'm not sure
that DD doesn't love Severus almost as much as a son. (In case you're
curious, I don't like Snape in general.)

> Eloise:
> and again in 33668,
> > I think it is acutely painful for him that 'famous Harry Potter' 
> > gets all the credit for Voldemort's downfall when however much 
> > 'good' he has done is secret. 
> > 'Fame isn't everything' isn't just another nasty remark, it's a 
> > cri de coeur.


Snorky:
Yes, 'Fame isn't everything' is a big clue. I think fame is on Snape's
brain because Harry has it, and he doesn't, yet they are both heros. 

> >Snorky:
> ><snip other examples of Snape's obsession with Harry's celebrity>
> 
> > In POA, when Snape is apoplectic with rage at Harry when he finds
> > out that Sirius has escaped. A reason given by Lupin is that Snape
> > is not going to be given an award for bravery.

> Eloise:
> And I think he genuinely believes he was right until the penny 
> drops that just as he excluded Dumbledore from what *he* was up to,
> similarly Dumbledore hatched a plot with Harry and Hermione to
> rescue Sirius without letting him in on the secret. Not only has
> Dumbledore not confided in him, but Harry has played hero again and
> worse *with Dumbledore's complicity*

Snorky:
Perhaps Snape and DD understand each others' limitations. Snape thinks
Dumbledore falls for sob stories, Dumbledore doesn't trust Snape's
judgment when it comes to controlling his emotions regarding an enemy.

> Snorky:
> > (<snip> I also wonder if Snape and everyone else in the OOTP had
> > heard of Harry's prophecy a long while before. (I've seen this
> > discussed about Harry's parents.) Snape could hate Neville 
> > Longbottom as well for being a possible Hero. 
> 
> Eloise:
> Mmm. He could. I think there's more than meets the eye in that 
> particular loathing and have often wondered if perhaps he blames 
> himself in part for what happened to the Longbottoms as I am sure
> he blames himself in part for what happened to James and Lily.

Yes. In POA Snape blames James's arrogance for ignoring Snape's
warnings about Sirius. Snape would have loved to have saved James.

> Eloise:
> I quoted Rebecca as saying,
> 
> >I think after he decided to turn against the DEs he wound up feeling 
> >terrible about whatever it was he did do while he was really with 
> >them and he became obsessed with the idea of doing something 
> >important to redeem himself. <snip>

Snorky:
I'll get to this someday, but I don't think Snape is racked by guilt
about his death eater days.

> Eloise:
> I quoted Rebecca as saying,
> >much then saving his life would be construed as really heroic.
> ><snip> This would also explain why Snape is always running into
> >the middle of dangerous situations to try to fix them; he's still 
> >trying to make up for his past and he still winds up being 
> >mistrusted and misunderstood for all his efforts.

> Eloise:
... 
> The reason that I wouldn't describe it as a hero complex (although 
> there is no doubt in my mind that he wants to be one) is that I
> think Snape has very specific needs when it comes to recognition. I
> think he genuinely wants to be pivotal in bringing down Voldemort, I
> think he has an intense rivalry with Harry, both to do with the fight 
> against Voldemort and as a rival in his relationship with Dumbledore, 
> I think he needs to prove himself to make up for his past. 
> 
> The whole thing is complicated by the fact that he both needs to
> make amends for failing to save a man he detested and also has to
> protect the son who is a constant reminder of him, his biggest rival 
> and constantly in his way. I think he has plenty of reason to hate
> Harry.


Snorky:
I explain in a recent message that Snape runs off to save people
without thinking very much, and thinks about his deserved reward
later.  It is at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/119316.
I think the roots of Snapes' hero complex are something we'll learn
about, and that they have something to do with his upbringing. Perhaps
Snape is an orphan like Harry who goes running around saving people
for some reason related to being an orphan, like hating to lose anyone
to the grim reaper. (Harry's orphan-hero connection was discussed
recently.)

It's also possible that Snape learns to hate Harry less as he learns
about Harry's upbringing, recognizes what a good Slytherin Harry could
have been, and comes to appreciate the huge number of things they have
in common.

Just a heads up in case you think I'm ignoring you: I have so many
things to do to prepare for the holidays that I'm dropping out of the
HP universe for a while. Happy hunting!