[HPforGrownups] Hermione and DU (was: CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 33 - Fight and Flight)

[Vivamus]

No: HPFGUIDX 119448

> Tina wrote:
> > > Man, I just wanted Hermione to shut up!  With every word 
> she spoke 
> > > it got worse and worse (kind of like Umbridge...).  She 
> has the book 
> > > knowledge but clearly needs to work on her understanding 
> of applying 
> > > some of that knowledge.
> > 
> > Vivamus replied:
> > Me too on wanting her to shut up, but isn't it interesting that she
> *didn't*
> > shut up?  How she did not respect the Centaurs enough to stop what
> she was
> > doing and think when they reacted badly?  I thought it was almost
> *exactly*
> > like Umbridge.  I wondered if perhaps JKR isn't making the point
> that there
> > isn't as much difference between the "good" and "bad" 
> characters as our
> > fantasy-trained minds would have us believe.   Hermione is far more
> > intelligent than DU, but made the same stupid blunder (and it was
> stupid not
> > in a lack of understanding the Centaurs in the first place, 
> but in not 
> > shutting up and thinking when they reacted badly to the first
> statement.)   
> > 
> *snip*
> 
> > In that respect, Hermione and DU are not all that different.  The
> question
> > for me is whether Hermione is going to learn to let other people
> make their
> > own choices.  I think she will by the end of the series, but only
> because I
> > think JKR really wants Hermione to mature into a healthy adult
> (well, I do,
> > too.)  But I don't think the encounter with the Centaurs was
> sufficiently
> > disastrous enough to get her attention.  In her own way, I think she
> is as
> > blind as Hagrid is about monsters -- and that may well be 
> JKR's point.
> > 
> > Vivamus
> 
> Tammy replies now:
> 
> I don't think Hermione is like DU. Umbridge is arrogant and 
> self-serving. DU is a racist, plain and simple, which is what 
> leads to her downfall with the centaurs. She expects them to 
> realize they are "lower creatures" and to respect her higher status.
> 
> Hermione on the other hand, has loads of book knowledge, but 
> little to no interpersonal people skills. She's a standard 
> "nerd" (no offense to any nerds in the group, and please note 
> I'm generalizing for the purpose of my point :P ). She can't 
> interact with people. She has a hard time interacting with 
> Ron and Harry most of the time. 
> 
> I think that while Hermione and DU had basically the same 
> result with centaurs, it was for entirely different reasons. 
> Still a good point from JKR though.
> 
> -Tammy, who identifies greatly with Hermione's lack of people 
> skills :D

Vivamus:
Tammy, you are absolutely right that they are different in all those areas.
DU is all of those things, and Hermione is not.  But when it comes to
respecting other people's boundaries, I think they have a similar blindness.
Just as Harry and LV have many similarities, even though they are radically
different, so Hermione and DU have similarities.  DU stomps on other people
because she can, and because she is a sadist, and because she is the epitome
of a power-hungry beaurocrat, but she probably didn't start out that way.
She probably started out thinking that she was making the world a better
place by "helping" people "for their own good", and that is not altogether
different from where Hermione is.

I'm not suggesting that Hermione would ever grow into a DU or anything
remotely like her.  Hermione is brave, kind, intelligent, and good, and I
don't think DU was ever very much of any of those things, even when she was
young.  But it is so easy to view the world as black and white that we
forget that people are highly complex, and don't easily fall into good/bad
categories.   

Hermione is a wonderful person, but she can be pretty annoying.  One of her
most annoying traits is that of disrespecting other peoples freedom of
choice.  It is never said in the books, but it seems clear to me that she is
doing this "for their own good."  That applies whether she is following
Harry around all day, nagging him about a choice that is his (not hers,) or
making his potion disappear (earning him a zero) when cleanup is HIS
responsibility, not hers, or *arguing* with the house elves (and everyone
else) about what the house elves actually *want* in life.

All to their own way of looking at the books, but I very much like the fact
that the heroes are flawed.  They are incredible in some ways, but blind in
others, and they do make huge mistakes that have huge consequences.