Sexuality as a theme in HP (long)

[koinonia02]

No: HPFGUIDX 119585


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, 
olivier.fouquet+harry at m...Message 119563, wrote:

> Some read HP books as mysteries, other like to see them as of the 
> adventure and fantasy genre, and some as fairy-tales. There are 
>even readers that see in them deep christian or symbolic meaning. 
>In this post, I try to explore the way I read them: as the journey 
>from boyhood to manhood, with an explicit reference to sexuality. 

"K":
Let me state I read these books for the mysteries, fantasy and 
adventure. I guess all the explicit sexual references are passing 
way over my head. I just don't see it. My comments are not said in a 
mocking or rude way. I just want to state I disagree with your take 
on the books.


Oliver: 
> Significantly, as early as CoS we discover that Filch is himself 
>not a wizard, i.e he is himself deprived of manhood and sexuality.


"K":
Where in the books does it say Filch is deprived of his manhood and 
sexuality? Is it because he isn't a wizard? What does that say for 
Muggles?


Oliver:

>Hermione breaks into Snape's office, steals some ingredients 
> from him to prepare a potion that will change her in to someone 
>else. Alas, things don't go as well as planned and Hermione ends up 
>locking herself in a deserted toilet, desperately not wanting her 
>boy friends to see her, and with a lot of hairs. If one accepts 
>that Snape psychological role is to embody the disturbing aspects 
>of sexuality, this whole story is (in my opinion) a very nice and 
>tactful description of a girl first menstruation. 

"K":

So what does this say about Agnes? She's covered with fur in St. 
Mungo's. I'm a bit concerned about that.  ;-)


Oliver:
 
> Lupin's role is also clear. He is a remainder that sexual forces 
>are too powerful to be tamed, they must be accepted and may be 
>omesticated (the stag bows to Harry) but they also are a tremendous 
>threat. Isabelle Smadja, a french author, has theorized that Lupin 
>could also represent, well, pedophile tendencies. She interprets in 
>that sense the infamous event where "Lupin made a sudden motion 
>with his arm as though to grip Harry's shoulder, but thought better 
>of it." As she sees it, Lupin knows all too well that his sexuality 
>is not entirely safe, so he tries to contain his impulse as best as 
he can.

"K":

Does anyone believe that? Does anyone really believe JKR has given 
Remus Lupin pedophile tendencies and yet portrays him as being 
discriminated against? I find that thought very disturbing.


Oliver:

> (the image of Snape being 
> mocked by a girl for his failure to "mount" a "broomstick" carries 
>some very uneasy remembrances for many teenage boy) and sexual 
>humiliation of the worst kind inflicted by the two most popular 
>boys of the school. 


"K":

 This never, ever entered my mind.

Oliver:

> Definitely, Snape was not the right person to teach Harry to 
>control his sexual desires (half of Harry definitely wants to know 
>what mysteries Snape is trying to hide). Fatherly advices about sex 
>should have been Dumbledore's job, as he recognizes later.


"K":

Please give me verses that show where Snape was trying to teach 
Harry to control his sexual desires. What happened to the 
Harry/Voldemort mind intrusion?


Oliver:

>Snape is not only a teacher, he is a 
> symbol of something deeply rooted in a sane mind: some kind of 
> uneasiness towards sexuality. Most of what he does and says can be 
> related to this. I suspect that most of the debate between Snape 
haters 
> and Snape worshippers (or even shippers) reflects more the inner 
> posture of the reader towards this uneasiness than anything in 
canon. 

"K":

As a Snape fan I must say my "inner posture" sees nothing of the 
sort in canon. Snape and uneasiness towards sexuality? How in the 
world have I missed this?

See, I believe more than anything these kind of remarks just show 
where the mind of the reader is. If a person is determined/wants to 
find sexual references throughout this book or any other they will 
do so.

I see none in the examples you have given. I guess we just read the 
books differently. 

Oliver:
> JKR herself warned her girl readers not to fall for it. 

"K":

Exactly what did JKR warn the readers not to fall for? A man with 
sexual problems? I'm not sure what you mean. Here's the latest 
interview with Rowling and her comments concerning Snape. 


~*J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival Aug. 15 2004*~

QUESTION: Who is your favourite character in the books?

JKR: I have loads of favourite characters. I really like Harry, Ron, 
Hermione, Hagrid and Dumbledore. I love writing Snape—***even
though 
he is not always the nicest person***, he is really fun to write. I 
love writing Dudley. If I could meet anyone, I might choose Lupin. I 
really like him. My favourite new character is Luna—I am very
fond 
of her. 


QUESTION: Also, will we see more of Snape?
-You always see a lot of Snape, because he is a gift of a character. 
I hesitate to say that I love him. 
  
 [Audience member: I do]. 

JKR:You do? This is a very worrying thing. Are you thinking about 
Alan Rickman or about Snape? [Laughter].
 
-Isn't this life, though? I make this hero—Harry,
obviously—and 
there he is on the screen, the perfect Harry, because Dan is very 
much as I imagine Harry, but who does every girl under the age of 15 
fall in love with? Tom Felton as Draco Malfoy. ***Girls, stop going 
for the bad guy. Go for a nice man in the first place.*** It took me 
35 years to learn that, but I am giving you that nugget free, right 
now, at the beginning of your love lives.  


QUESTION:  Apart from Harry, Snape is my favourite character because 
he is so complex and I just love him. Can he see the Thestrals, and 
if so, why? Also, is he a pure blood wizard?

JKR:  Snape's ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so 
clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed 
to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some 
information about his ancestry there. He can see Thestrals, but in 
my imagination most of the older people at Hogwarts would be able to 
see them because, obviously, as you go through life you do lose 
people and understand what death is. ****But you must not forget 
that Snape was a Death Eater. He will have seen things that
 Why
do 
you love him? Why do people love Snape?**** 
  
I do not understand this. Again, ****it's bad boy syndrome,
isn't 
it? It's very depressing.**** [Laughter].
One of my best friends watched the film and she said, "You know 
who's really attractive?" I said, "Who?" She said,
"Lucius Malfoy!" 
(*my emphasis*)

In short form:

~I love writing Snape—***even though he is not always the nicest 
person***

~Girls, stop going for the bad guy. Go for a nice man in the first 
place. (Draco? Snape?)

~But you must not forget that Snape was a Death Eater. He will have 
seen things that...

~...it's bad boy syndrome, isn't it? It's very
depressing."

The comments of JKR have to do with nice/bad. I don't believe these 
comments are sexual in any way. Perhaps it is another interview that 
you have in mind and I would be curious to know which one it is.

I guess we can each continue to read the books as we so desire. What 
you consider to be canon for sexual references I see in another way. 
What I consider to be canon for just a plain old good werewolf-
wizard-vampire-giant-veela-humorous-fantasy story, you see otherwise.

So what happened to the story about good, evil and choice?

"K"

(To the HPfGU member who asked the Snape questions - great job!)