Sexuality as a theme

[olivier.fouquet+harry at m4x.org]

No: HPFGUIDX 119622

My post #119563 has had much more success than I would have thought, 
well at least if severe criticism is counted as success :-). I want to 
clarify a bit some of the most shocking things I wrote and I'll try to 
answer some of the questions.

First and foremost, I want to make it perfectly clear that I don't read 
HP only has a sexual metaphor, nor primarily as a sexual metaphor. I 
fully agree with posters like catkind or koinonia that the story is not 
about sexuality, but about choices, good and evil etc. These aspects 
are often discussed on this list and elsewhere, and rightly so because 
they are indeed the core of the Harry Potter saga. I also completely 
agree that HP is enjoyable based on its intrigue and its mysteries and 
not because it may contain symbolism. But twists, turns and far-fetched 
theories about this or that are the daily bread of this list. What I 
wanted to do is to try to show that it is possible that there are other 
theme touched by JKR.

To do so, I tried to give some evidence of (what I see as possible) 
sexual references and symbolism, and I tried to show that this 
symbolism, if accepted, is quite consistent (for example Snape does 
fulfill the same symbolic role throughout the series).
It is my opinion that many other instances exist (especially concerning 
Neville, Aragog, Hagrid...). Maybe I will write about it later.

Now to some of the specific criticism.

Catkind:
 >I have to admit, my first reaction to this post was to laugh
 >aloud. You can Freudian-analyse anything, and a world full of wands
 >and broomsticks is asking for trouble.

 >But to some extent I feel you're not even doing Freudian analysis so
 >much as playing the teenaged-boy-game of going "snigger, snigger,
 >nudge,nudge" whenever anyone says anything.

You are perfectly right: I am not doing Freudian analysis, I am 
absolutely not qualified to do so, having a very superficial knowledge 
of it. However, I hope I am not simply trying to be a dirty teenager. 
When a story reaches so many people anywhere in the world, when it is 
powerful enough so that thousands of people invest enormous energy to 
it, I think it is reasonable to surmise that it rings deep in human 
subconscious. Sexuality is a part of it (a small part but one that is 
not too often discussed on this list). As I said in my answer to 
Kneasy, I do think that JKR purposefully inserted this theme in HP, 
especially in CoS and PoA. My post #83372 covers this in much more 
details.

Catkind:
 >I agree that the books are very much about growing up, but that is
 >true whether one substitutes sex for every other feature of adulthood
 >or not. catkind, hoping it is not being offensive.

Absolutely agreed. Many other features of adulthood are much more 
prominently featured than sexuality, but I do think sexuality is there 
too, and in this particular post, I was interested in it. Oh, and no, 
it is absolutely not too offensive.

"K":
 >Let me state I read these books for the mysteries, fantasy and
 >adventure. I guess all the explicit sexual references are passing
 >way over my head. I just don't see it. My comments are not said in a
 >mocking or rude way. I just want to state I disagree with your take
 >on the books.
 >I see none in the examples you have given. I guess we just read the
 >books differently.

That's perfectly OK. In fact, I think I wouldn't have noticed it either 
if I hadn't started with CoS and with the voiced intent to show that HP 
books where just for children. My aim being to show how shallow they 
were, I was surprised to see it wasn't so. For the record, I also read 
them for the mysteries, fantasy and adventure.

imamommy
 >I think a lot of the interpretative differences depend on the "lens"
 >if you will that each of us uses to view the world. My guess,
 >Olivier, is that you tend to view life in general through sexual
 >metaphor, am I correct? I am a Christian, and yes I do see some
 >Christian symbolism, because that is the view I have of the world.

I do too. I would have been extremely surprised if JKR had denied any 
involvement in the Christian faith.

Many posters
 >Does anyone agree that Lupin could represent paedophilia?

I don't. As Siriusly Snapey Susan correctly remarked in her answer, 
this is Isabelle Smadja idea. I mentioned it for the sake of 
completeness.

	
Now to more specific criticisms

Many posters
 >That particular interpretation about this or that never entered my 
mind.

That's understandable. JKR very openly deals with subjects like 
choices, discrimination, bigotry, intolerance. On the other hand, when 
she writes about sexuality (if she does), it is always in a very 
restraint and subtle way. By the way, that's why I enjoy it, too many 
"in your face" sexual angst would spoil the books for me. If I had to 
make an argument that at least in one instance in the book, she writes 
about sexuality, I would choose either the "Percy situation" or Moaning 
Myrtle description of her own death (both in CoS). Let's see in the 
text:
Ch.3 p.28 "Percy has been acting very oddly this summer [...]. He has 
been [...] spending a load of time shut up in his room... I mean, 
there's only so many times you can polish a prefect badge."
  Further, Ch.16 p.212 "Well, er, if you must know, Ginny, er, walked in 
on me the other day when I was - well, never mind - the point is , she 
saw me doing something and I, um, I asked her not to mention it to 
anybody."
As for Myrtle:
(Ch.16 p.221) "it was dreadful, she said with relish[...]. I remember 
it so well. I'd hidden because [snip] was teasing me. [...] I heard 
somebody come in. They said something funny. Anyway what really got me 
was that it was a boy speaking.[...]. I just remember seeing a pair of 
big yellow eyes. My whole body sort of seized up and then I was 
floating away ... She looked dreamily at Harry."


Many posters
 >If one accepts your interpretations, JKR has a pretty warped up take 
on sexuality.

No, no, I must have been extremely unclear or unable to express myself 
correctly. On the contrary, I think JKR is very delicate and sane when 
it comes to that. Everything is always extremely allusive and even if 
one reads with the sole intent to find sexual symbolism, it is my 
opinion that one will find a very healthy picture of sexuality. For 
instance, I argued in earlier posts that CoS is about the danger of 
early sexuality for young teens and that PoA is about the difficult 
quest of a positive masculine identity (don't mistaken me, CoS and PoA 
aren't solely about that nor even primarily about that). Both books end 
with a very positive and encouraging take on these two subjects in my 
opinion.

Catkind
 >You have written in the sexual symbolism yourself

Koinonia
 >Snape and uneasiness towards sexuality? How in the
 >world have I missed this?

 >See, I believe more than anything these kind of remarks just show
 >where the mind of the reader is. If a person is determined/wants to
 >find sexual references throughout this book or any other they will
 >do so.

I doubt I have written in the sexuality. Many other readers on this 
list have written posts about it way before I even read the first HP 
book. It has also been the theme of one of the Keynote at the Nimbus 
Three symposium (or so I have been told in post #83402). Well, other 
people can make the same mistakes I make, that's true. However, 
Catkind, if you are in any sense interested in continuing this 
discussion, I would like you to at least take a quick look at my post 
83372. Then we can discuss if indeed CoS is entirely devoid of sexual 
symbolism or if maybe there are at least hints that it could be a 
theme. You can challenge my arguments of course.

As for Snape and uneasiness towards sexuality? Well, these are a few 
possible argument.

Out of the four memories we have of Snape, two are directly concerned 
with uneasy sexuality (at least inasmuch girl/boy relationship reflects 
sexuality) and one of the other (parents fighting) also touches on 
relationships.

Many people on this list think that Snape is a vampire, or at least 
that he carries some vampire symbolism. Vampire are common literature 
icon for dark aspects of sexuality (I am NOT making this up, check say 
en.wikipedia/wiki/Vampire).

Snape is creepy, ugly, lives in a disgusting, cold, place with dead 
animals floating in bottles. Check out from a psychoanalysis book what 
those may represent symbolically.

Snape is Neville's boggart. Not Voldemort, not Bellatrix who tortured 
his parents into madness: Snape. What is one of the main scene where 
Snape scares Neville? When he threatens to poison Trevor. Check out 
what toad is commonly associated to in fairy tales psychology (you 
guessed it but I don't want to be accused of writing things in).

Snape hates Sirius. JKR herself wrote on her site that Sirius is sexy.

One of Snape's first sentences is  that he will teach "the delicate 
power of liquids that creep through human veins." Liquids. So he cannot 
refer to blood only.

Snape has a huge success in every kind of sexual fan fiction, 
indicating that to some fans at least, he may be related to this theme.

Of course, all these arguments are circular in a sense. If you don't 
accept psychoanalysis, you can dispute each and every of the examples I 
cited. To tell you the truth, I am not even sure I believe in this kind 
of psychoanalysis reading myself. But I perceive a certain consistency 
in these possibly random symbols so I think it is at least valid to try 
to explore this line of thinking.

Thanks to all the posters that expressed interest.

Olivier