Angry Harry in OotP

[madlysarcastic]

No: HPFGUIDX 119688


Java wrote:

> Again, I'm new to this group so i don't know if this has been 
> mentioned before.

Maddy writes:

I believe it has been mentioned before...but regardless, we all might
as well have our say, haven't we? ;)

Java wrote:

> And I think, because of this attitude change, Harry had more self-
> involved thoughts (is it me or this book is a lot more descriptive 
> on 
> Harry's inner thoughts than any other?) and most of the time, he use 
> anger as a way out. Well, when you're that arrogant, of course you'd 
> think the whole world is against you. It's probably normal for 
> teenagers, but for someone so determined like Harry to suddenly 
> change like that is indeed a shock.

Maddy:

I agree that there's definitely more of an inner monologue going on
OotP. That might account for the shock some people felt. In fact, I
don't think I really had a very good understanding of Harry's
character until I read OotP. He seemed rather unremarkable before that
book. It was the first time in which I didn't agree with everything
Harry said or did. Before that he was too much of an "everyman".

With my teenage years not being too long ago, I can safely say that it
is typical to be fairly melodramatic and self-absorbed. I think part
of it, though, is that Harry is *tired* of having to cooperate and be
a good boy. Nobody's treating him like an adult, so why should be
mature like an adult? Arrogant? Yeah, but everybody is to some extent.
 But the boy does have to be given some extra credit; he has done a
lot more than the average 15-year-old and probably is entitled to be a
little more arrogant than most his age.

Java wrote:

> I'm sure a lot of people have pointed out 
> Harry went from a quiet, mature, and happy boy and turned into a 
> whiny angry punk. I liked SS (and the movie version too) because 
> Harry was seeing things with positive, excited quietness which 
> represented his strength and maturity. And I thought that was 
> believeable and admirable even for a 11 year old. But in ootp, he is 
> just completely self-involved.

(snipped a bit)

> He gets annoyed with everyone including 
> his best friends, and hates pretty much everything. What I mean is, > I 
> liked the boy because he was a positive character, he overcame all 
> that difficulty and still loved life and believed in goodness.

Maddy here:

Upon first read of OotP, I was a little flustered by Harry's behaviour
and extreme emotions, too. But it's making more sense the more I think
about it.

Harry's grown up in a not-so-nice-to-him home, and yes, despite that
he generally knows right from wrong and becomes a happy kid once he's
at Hogwarts. But there are so many traumatic things that happen to him
between the first book and the fifth.

-Through the Mirror of the Erised and the photo album Hagrid made him,
he gets to see his parents - the family he never had. Although this is
a small part in PS/SS, I think it has profoundly affected Harry since
then. He's told that his parents are wonderful people who loved him.
He now has some appreciation of what he lost; what Voldemort denied
him. While we don't see much anger from Harry in this first book, I
think he's only beginning to understand how affected he is by this loss.
-He meets Voldemort face to face and defeats him (for the time being).
No small feat for an eleven-year-old.
-In CoS he gets the first taste of being talked about viciously by
others, experiences anger, shame, confusion (he didn't know why he
could speak parseltongue, thought he could be the heir of Slytherin,
etc), but pulls through it all, and when it comes down to it he's able
to out-smart Riddle, kill a Basilisk and save Ginny Weasley.
-In PoA, we see the first signs of real rage. He felt very vengeful
towards Sirius before he knew the truth; he was almost ready to kill
Sirius. Once the truth is told, Harry quickly switches his hatred for
sincere affection for Sirius; this shows how quickly Harry's emotions
can change.
-In GoF Harry and Ron's fight shows that Harry can be quite stubborn,
and vicious when he chooses to be. His encounter with Voldy, Wormtail
and the DEs is very traumatic: Cedric dying, being cut to have his
blood used in a potion to convert the scary!scale-y!baby!Voldy to
full-fledge Vodly, Dueling with the V-man, and not to mention seeing
the "echos" of his dead parents come out of the Priori Incanteum thingy.

Harry has been through a lot. And in the beginning of OotP it seems
like he's suppressed a lot of his emotions of fear and guilt and greif
throughout the summer. Being forced to go back to the Dursleys when he
probably was in dire need of emotional support probably wasn't good
for him.

A while back I remember someone here gave a detailed description of
why Harry might have been clinically depressed during OotP, and I
think I'd have to agree. He lashes out at his friends even though they
 try to help him. And his moods go from boyantly happy to sinking,
cold, sadness, fear, and anger. He's been through a lot, and he has
accomplished quite amazing things by the age of 15, and he's having to
endure frustrating restrictions on him that are "for his own safety",
but he is never given any explanation as to *why*. Why couldn't he
leave the Dursley's and stay with Sirius or the Weasleys? What exactly
was the deal with his visions? Nobody will explain these things to
him; not knowing, and being left to his worries and frustrations only
makes things worse for him and more likely to have the wrong impression.

I think Harry's lashing out at his friends isn't a sign of him
disliking them. Notice that it's only really Ron and Hermione that he
gets angry with? (Well, Snape, too. But that's a different story.) Ron
and Hermione are probably the closest allies and friends Harry has.
(Yes, even closer than Sirius. I can't picture Harry ever feeling
comfortable yelling at Sirius.) He can safely yell at Ron and Hermione
because he *knows* that they are loyal to him, and that no matter how
loud he might yell, they'll still be his friends and care about him.
He's taking advantage of that fact a bit too much, IMO, but there you
have it. (On a side note, I've often thought that Harry treats Ron and
Hermione slightly like parents. With parents [in most cases], you know
their loyalty and care is unconditional, so you can yell as much as
you please and still know they're there for you.)

About the visions...these are horrendous things for Harry. They sound
like a terrible migraine coupled with disturbing feelings and visions
that aren't his own...and to not even know what they are or what they
mean? And being inside the snake that attacked Arthur Weasley? That
alone would be enough to push me over the edge. You're right about
Harry being resilient and positive, though. I think a lot of other
people would have completely snapped before now, if in his situation.
Harry is still the same boy you saw in PS/SS, he's just very near
breaking point right now.

I think OotP was like the final straw for a lot of things. I think in
book 6 Harry's going to have to get a hold of himself emotionally.
He's going to need to grieve for Sirius, as well as forgive himself
and come to terms with the Prophecy.

Harry'll bounce back to his good ol' self eventually. =)

Java:

> But other times, it just seems like it's reflecting the author's own 
> state of mind. The whole thing about media franzy, and frustration 
> over politics are very adult oriented. Maybe I'm just too old, but do 
> 15-year old actually worry about the power struggle between ministry 
> and school? I've graduated from school and started working already, 
> and still just kinda getting to know the whole office politics and 
> power struggle thing. Hermione must be extremely smart and wise to 
> figure that out all by herself at the tender age of 15.

Maddy:

I think it's a mix of the two, really. JKR *does* know what it's like
to have the media talking about you. But that *is* something that
Harry's facing. I realize that it's up to JKR what Harry has to face,
but I think it is realistic. JKR's writing what she knows, I guess.

I think when you're Harry Potter, you do have to worry about politics.
Notice that the majority of other kids don't all follow the news and
aren't wise to the subtle politics within and without Hogwarts.
Hermione is a definitely a smart cookie, but today we found out that
she is in fact 16 throughout most of OotP
(http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=90). So that
explains it somewhat, I guess. 


=)
Maddy
(who really didn't intend for this post to be so terrifyingly long,
and really should be studying instead of posting)