[HPforGrownups] Re: Angry Harry in HBP?

[Vivamus]

No: HPFGUIDX 119703

> > > > imamommy:
> > > > 
> > > > I would expect the boy to display the classic five steps of
> grief:
> > > > shock, denial, anger/bargaining, depression, and acceptance. 
> > > > These are the five steps people go through when something else 
> > > > traumatic happens to them. Each of these steps is essential to 
> > > > mental health for the individual.
> > > 
> > > Vivamus:
> > > It has been many years, so I could be mistaken, but as I recall,
> > the five stages of the grief process, as outlined by (I think) 
> > Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, were Denial, Anger, Acceptance, Grief, and 
> > Resolution.  [snip]
> > 
> > Demetra:
> > Actually, iammommy was closer.  The five stages are: Denial (this 
> > isn't happening to me), Anger (I hate that this happening to me), 
> > Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...), Depression (I 
> > don't care anymore), Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)
> > 
> > If I recall my university years, Kubler-Ross was specifically 
> > referring to the stages one goes through when coming to terms with
> a 
> > diagnosis of a terminal illness.  When applying them to the 
> grief over 
> > the loss of a loved one, I'm not sure that each stage
> applies.  
> > How would bargaining would apply in Harry's case.  He can't very
> well 
> > say "I'll never ignore Hermione's warnings again if you just bring 
> > Sirius back from the dead"
> Snip
> > Demetra
> 
> imamommy:
> 
> I was referring to Harry's learning about the prophecy, which 
> is in a way like being diagnosed with a terminal illness.  He 
> now knows (or thinks he knows) that either he has to kill 
> Voldemort, or Voldemort will kill him, so he is facing either 
> spiritual death (becoming a
> killer) or physical death, or both.  
> 
> Perhaps he will try bargaining by an (short-lived, I'm sure) 
> attempt at giving up magic?  
> 
> imamommy

Vivamus:
I finally went to do a little research to prove my point, and found out . .
. oops, I was wrong, at least in part.  I did read Elisabeth Kubler-Ross'
book "On Death and Dying" many years ago, but I had forgotten what it was
about.  She was, as imamommy suggested, talking about what a terminally ill
person goes through in preparation for dying.  And the stages were Denial /
Anger / Bargaining / Depression / Acceptance, as Demetra said.

I think I was reciting a list from a later adaptation of that work (possibly
Paul Irion's "The Funeral and the Mourners," but I don't have it with me to
check,) specifically aimed at helping bereavement (the grief process
resulting from the death of a loved one.)  THAT list was Denial / Anger /
Acceptance / Grief / Resolution, as I discussed in the earlier post.  While
everyone's grief process is different, and no one HAS to go through a
specific formula to heal, that describes the bereavement process better than
anything else I've encountered.   I have watched several hundred of people
go through the bereavement process over the years, and while it looks very
different in different people, that process (Denial / Anger / Acceptance /
Grief / Resolution) does fit it very well.

It is indeed different when you are facing a terminal illness (or any other
impending bad news) than when you are dealing with a death.  One can often
be overcome with attitude, effort, or other means, but the other is
irreversible.  Bargaining with a deity (or other representative of Fate or
luck) is a natural part of dealing with something approaching you want to
avoid ("please heal John".)  As Demetra suggested, it doesn't really fit for
grief over a death.   If someone is bargaining over a death ("please bring
John back,") it indicates denial, because we know, deep down, that people
really DON'T return from the dead.  Also, for an impending death by terminal
illness, Acceptance is very nearly the end of the road for grief, as there
is often little time for anything else, since issues surrounding the illness
tend to take over.  In bereavement, OTOH, Acceptance actually has to happen
before Grief can begin.  

It is only when we realize that the loss is real and permanent that we can
begin to plumb the depths of our own sadness.  Only when we get to those
depths are we able to let the sadness "wash out", as it were, and stop being
overwhelming.  And only at that point can we really begin to put things back
together.   

Imamommy's idea of Harry bargaining to avoid the "kill or be killed" rule he
was given makes a lot of sense to me.  And the terminal illness grief model
probably fits that pretty well.   Harry never did deal with the death of
Cedric, but Cedric was really only a distant acquaintance.  He got to know
him only in GoF, and was only closely tied with him in the final task, when
Cedric was so noble he would not take the cup when he had the chance.  Even
so, Harry still hasn't grieved for Cedric.

His loss of Sirius, however, is an order of magnitude more difficult, for
all the things talked about earlier.  

We'll see what happens, as JKR may have a completely different agenda for
HBP, and there may only be passing reference to Harry's grief.  (And that
would not be wrong of her to do; as much as we might want to see exploration
of a particular theme, she is the only true puppetmaster in this play.)

Vivamus