Adults "failing" Harry (was: Themes in OotP)

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 119913


Rebecca wrote:
> Lastly, these people were members of the Order and had
> that responsibility too. Although Harry's emotional
> health is important, it does not outstrip the safety
> of the WW. They were keeping him safe as best they
> could and keeping it a secret from him to protect the
> rest of the world.
<snip>
> Harry didn't want emotional support (though he needed it),
> he wanted information.

SSSusan replied:
>>Again, it's NOT really Harry's emotional health that I've been
arguing here. His emotional health would be NICE to have addressed
at some point, but I'm talking about information, too -- about his
safety and preparedness and having a feeling of knowing what's going
on & his role in things, knowing that there are people he can trust
to believe him & believe in him, as well as to provide SOME
information.<<

Betsy:
>>Ah, and this is something that can be laid only at Dumbledore's
doorstep. He's the leader of this particular band of brothers and he
decides who knows what. And he obviously, and mistakenly, decided in
the beginning to keep Harry as much in the dark as he could. It was
an old man's mistake, as he tells Harry at the end of OotP. And his
motives were very similar to Molly's attempts to keep all the
children in the dark. This is a war, and the more you know, the more
you're involved; the more you're involved, the more danger you're
in. Better to keep the children safely tucked away where the
darkness cannot touch them.<<

HunterGreen (i would have had a lot more to say if SSSusan hadn't 
said it first):
But the darkness is going to touch Harry no matter what. That is a 
fact. There is nothing that anyone can do to avoid that. Voldemort 
wants to lure Harry to the DoM, and keeping him in the dark about it 
is not going to save him. *TELLING* him about it is going to save 
him. Besides, it goes back to something I mentioned upthread, if 
there were so gung-ho about treating Harry like a child, why did they 
give him no support? A child can not be counted on to make correct 
decisions in a crisis (*ahem* running off to "rescue Sirius"), and if 
he were treated like an adult here he would have known the vision was 
most likely false. 
My point is that someone (it doesn't have to be Dumbledore) should 
have told Harry "If you have another vision contact ____" Harry 
doesn't trust Snape, Dumbledore *knows* this. But that wasn't even 
the reason why Harry didn't go to him, he simply didn't think of it. 
If Snape had approached Harry after McGonagal had been taken to St. 
Mungos and told Harry (or passed on a letter from DD, or written 
himself, which seems more in character), that said if you have a 
vision please alert Professor Snape at once and he take care of it. 
The problem was that all the people in the order seemed to assume 
that Harry would either suceed at occulmency, or be able to discount 
a vision put in his head by one of the most evil and powerful wizards 
ever as just a vision when he previously had a TRUE vision which 
saved someone's life. That's just a lot to swallow. How many adults 
who have NEVER had a vision would be able to ignore one of a loved 
one about to be murdered? 
When Harry had the dream he didn't know what to do and that is 
something that could have been easily been avoided without having to 
give Harry any "secret" information. Harry should be of great concern 
to the order, especially when they know Voldemort and the DEs are 
targeting him. 

Betsy:
>>Snape is a teacher, a damn good one as per his NEWT successes, and 
he assigns Snape a teaching job. Why on earth would Dumbledore have 
to explain to the pupil that he should listen to his teacher and take 
his lesson seriously? And why would Dumbledore need to hang over the 
shoulder of a teacher he trusts and respects?<<

HunterGreen:
Even if he were getting taught occulmency from Lupin (for example) 
Harry would need to understand WHY it was so important. Convincing 
Harry of its importance without giving anything away is already hard 
enough, why have one of Harry's enemies explain it to him? And 
there's no way Dumbledore was unaware of Harry's mistrust of Snape. 
Personally, I think occulmency would have never worked no matter who 
taught it or who explained the situation to Harry since its not meant 
for blocking people out of your dreams. But it didn't have a chance 
unless Harry really cared about it, you can't FORCE something to care 
about something, which is what all the adults around him were doing 
("Harry, you must learn occulmency." "Why?" "YOU MUST!!!" -- that 
doesn't accomplish anything). He thought the connection with 
Voldemort was helpful, and he had a good reason for thinking so. Just 
telling him that Voldemort might use to to do something bad is not 
enough. Who would that convince?

In any case, hopefully OotP was the last book of adults treating 
Harry like a little kid, and pretending that he has nothing to do 
with Voldemort. If we have to go back to people keeping things from 
him and if Mrs. Weasley mentions him not being "of age", there's 
going to be a lot of patience tested. Its been five books, its time 
for Harry to be recognized for what he is.