Adults "failing" Harry (was: Themes in OotP)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 119916


SSSusan:
> > I would say that the safety of the rest of the world is what's 
> > at risk in the decision *NOT* to tell him things!  If Harry 
> > can't be convinced that he needs to do X or Y, then the 
> > wizarding world will have to live with the consequences of his 
> > actions/inactions.
 
Betsy:
> And when Dumbledore felt that Harry was of an age to affect the 
> Wizarding world, he planned on letting Harry in on things.  But at 
> this point in the game, Dumbledore's plan was to keep Harry off 
> the board.  So no actions or inactions to worry about.


SSSusan:
"So no actions or inactions to worry about."  If that's the case, 
then I guess I'd say DD really screwed this one up.  That remark 
might have held true for most kids, but hasn't DD figured Harry out 
YET when it comes to this?  "Someone's after the SS?  I'll go stop 
him!"  "Someone's taken Ginny?  I'll go get her!"  I mean, this kid 
is nothing if not "action" when the pressure's on or when he 
perceives something needs to be done.  I think DD should have 
expected Harry to have continued this tendency, esp. after the 
attack on Mr. Weasley and his role in it.  Harry think he needs to 
DO things, and he'll do them on the sly if he thinks he has to.  DD 
should have been aware of that.


SSSusan: 
> >I just spent some time in the post that was snipped giving an 
> > example of exactly what I thought DD could have done to have 
> > helped Harry see why he needed to take Occlumency seriously, 
> > without having to give him any dangerous specifics that Voldy 
> > might've been able to access.
> [snip]
> >[...]DD thinks it's *essential* that Harry learn to block the 
> > visions & dreams.  He tells Snape to teach Harry and lets Snape 
> > explain what's up & why.  DD himself makes no contact w/ Harry.  
> > I'm arguing that EVEN JUST having had DD contact Harry with the 
> > news about Occlumency & the what's up & why might've made Harry 
> > believe in Occlumency's importance and that he must work at it & 
> > trust Snape.

Betsy:
> This was another miscalculation of Dumbledore's, though I think a 
> more understandable one.  Snape is a teacher, a damn good one as 
> per his NEWT successes, and he assigns Snape a teaching job.  Why 
> on earth would Dumbledore have to explain to the pupil that he 
> should listen to his teacher and take his lesson seriously?  


SSSusan:
Um... because it's SNAPE and HARRY, that's why.  Snape is *not* a 
damn good teacher when it comes to Harry. And if DD isn't aware of 
the animosity between them, then that's shocking.  McGonagall 
certainly is aware of it.  ["Yes, Potter, *Potions*."]

I'm not talking about what "should" happen in an ideal world with 
Random Student X and Random Teacher Y.  I'm talking about the world 
JKR has shown us for 4 1/2 years, with Specific Student Harry and 
Specific Teacher Snape.  It's different than theorizing in the 
abstract -- or should be.  If it's wartime and you know each 
General's strengths & weaknesses, don't you plan strategy 
accordingly?


Betsy:
> And why would Dumbledore need to hang over the shoulder of a 
> teacher he trusts and respects?  

SSSusan:
Well, DD later admitted it was a mistake to use Snape, so there must 
have been reason for that admission.  Again, it's not that 
one "should" have to do this in every situation; it's that DD should 
have recognized it might be necessary in *this* situation.


Betsy:
> Hopefully I've shown why I think the actions of the adults around 
> Harry were believable, maybe even a little bit understandable.  Of 
> course, Dumbledore was wrong.  

SSSusan:
I snipped your earlier section on the other adults, and I do 
understand what you're saying about their behaviors being 
understandable.  You pointed out, for instance, that Sirius and 
Molly *aren't* really Harry's parents.  My only argument remaining 
about that would be that if they are going to say that they're "all 
the parent" he has or that they're "good as a parent" that they 
really should step up and act like it.  Sirius, I think, tried to do 
this at the start but didn't keep it up consistently.  Molly 
probably felt that she *was* acting like a parent by doing what she 
is wont to do with her own children -- (over?)protecting them.  So, 
I agree with you that some of these people's actions were 
understandable.  I wish they'd looked at whether they were actually 
*helpful* to Harry, though.  And DD... well, the more I think about 
this, the more I guess I really do think he goofed up.

Siriusly Snapey Susan