I don't like him much

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 119978


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" <gbannister10 at a...> wrote:
> 
> I set out, in message 118574, to show that in my opinion - which 
> is "usually wrong with unerring and boring predictability" - that I 
> see Harry as following the progress of a fairly average teenager, 
> having studied these strange creatures in their natural habitat for 
> over 30 years.
> 
Kneasy:
Wrong? Who cares about posters being wrong?
Anyway, you deserve sympathy for having suffered the company of a
barely civilised sub-species for all those years.

Geoff:
> I recall my own teenage years, veering between overweening confidence 
> and being downright terrified of getting something miniscule wrong. 
> All the guys I knocked around with often considered ourselves as 
> being the best thing since sliced bread, the next saviours of the 
> world - being far more streetwise than our adult contacts - until 
> something unforeseen knocked out the confidence rungs from our 
> ladders and down we came. Our parents treated us either as young 
> adults or overgrown kids, not being quite sure which we were; we 
> didn't know either. Aren't we being just as perverse as Harry or any 
> other teen? He is expecting adults to conform to his perceptions of 
> how his friends and mentors should behave - and let's face it, the 
> way some of them are treating him is way out of line - while we, as 
> adults, are expecting him to know all the nuances and interpretations 
> of our behaviour which only come with experience over many years.
> 
> "It's a bit like the Habsburg Court," she said one day, "a frightenly 
> complex system of protocol, checks, counterchecks and balances with 
> all kinds of silent pressures and intrigues going on and you hovering 
> over the safety-valve watching for explosions.." 
> 
> What a great description of the relations between adults and teens.
> 
> I'm sorry, Kneasy, but I am going to take up a diametrically opposed 
> position to you; it wouldn't be so much fun if I didn't, now would 
> it? I can see myself in Harry and I can see so many of the boys who 
> passed through my hands in school and so many of them have gone on 
> and become perfectly normal, reasonable members of society 
> afterwards....
> 

Kneasy:
Not sure the parallels are applicable.
Sure; I can remember my teens too, even though it was over 40 years ago.
Mostly OK with horrible and embarassing interludes.
IIRC the rules, mores and undercurrents were mostly within the peer
group; adults were considered as something different altogether. Mind
you, in those days there was a common rite-of-passage where one passed
formally from sub-adult to the real thing - the 21st birthday. It was the
accepted dividing line after which non-adult excuses and behaviour
wouldn't wash. Before then some allowances were made, no matter that you
held down a job, had a family or had been conscripted into the forces, 
though those allowances tapered off dramatically after 18. But still,
until you were 21 you couldn't be sole signatory on a contract for example;
you could avoid the responsibilities of adulthood to a greater or lesser extent.

In the WW this doesn't seem to be the case. 
DD more or less coerces Harry into accepting the so-called magical contract 
in GoF, even though Harry was not a 'signatory' to the deal. Others (for one
reason or another) assumed that he was and that the contract would be 
enforced even though he was only 14. Responsibilities come early in the
WW it seems.

Understandable. Everybody over the age of 11 has a wand - and they can 
do things with wands way beyond the scope of a calculator or geometry set.
Bloody dangerous in the wrong (or foolish) hands. What would be the
equivalent in the Real World? Is there one? It's as if every schoolkid is
geared up for mischief, malicious damage, assault or grevious bodily harm.
Fancy  teaching a mob like that, Geoff? Just don't turn your back on the
class, whatever you do.

Outside Hogwarts there are the underage magic rules with severe penalties;
inside Hogwarts - well, it's up to the staff to keep the little monsters in
line. But generally nearly all the students act responsibly most of the time.
A certain behavioural standard is expected and complied with; students know
that they will be held responsible for their actions. So although not formally
of age pleas for mitigation based on immaturity are unlikely to be accepted
as a sole or even major factor.

It's my contention that Harry hasn't yet got to grips with how far this
expectation stretches - it goes further than just messing about with wands,
the closest RW parallel I can come up with is Midshipmen in Nelson's navy 
and even that shouldn't be taken too  far.

But basically, Harry isn't hacking it on the responsibility front. 

Kneasy