[HPforGrownups] Did Snape Try to Warn James at GH? (Re: Here is an interesting Snape one)

[Vivamus]

No: HPFGUIDX 120519

> Vivamus:
> > But if SS first opposed LV when LV went to kill Lilly and James and 
> > their son, that seems different.  LV would certainly kill 
> someone who 
> > did that, but if Severus' devotion to Lilly was the hook 
> that let LV 
> > control him, it would mean that it meant that LV made a 
> mistake in not 
> > realizing that was the one place he could not control SS.  
> Hence, the 
> > "he will be killed, of course" line instead of "none of you 
> will rest 
> > until that miserable treacherous slime, SS, has been hunted 
> down and 
> > ... [fill in appropriate things LV would come up with]"
> 
> 
> SSSusan:
> I'm enjoying the possibilities arising out of this thread, 
> but I need a little help with what you meant here, Vivamus, 
> by "the hook that let LV control him."  Could you flesh that 
> out for me a bit?  
> How would Voldy have used that hook?  Why would it make a 
> difference in how casually or maliciously he said he would be 
> killing Severus?
> 
> I understand the notion that if LV figured SS had opposed him 
> & spied for DD against him long before, he'd be more adamant 
> about killing him, but I'm not quite understanding the 
> significance of Lily as "the hook that let LV control him."
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan

Vivamus:
Several scenarios come to mind, but if Severus was in love with Lilly, even
though she wouldn't have anything to do with him, it is quite possible that
LV used that obsession against him, either in directly promising her to him
in some fashion (not likely, but possible,) or in indirectly hinting that SS
would "prove himself" to her by his actions as a DE, or simply in
recognizing that this (proving himself to Lilly) was the motivation for his
coming to LV in the first place.  Of course, if SS turns to LV in bitter
rejection because Lilly chose James, it works almost the same way.

LV is brilliant, and very, very good at controlling people.  In his new
avatar, we've only seen him in his "evil overlord" mode, but Tom Riddle's
treatment of Ginny presents a better picture of how he can pretend to be
nice, and draw people out until he is ready to "set the hook", i.e., present
them with the fact that they have gone past a point of no return.

It doesn't have to be Lilly, of course; it could have been any source of
obsession.  Lilly was just suggested to me by the pensieve scene, as the
*reason* that was his worst memory -- not that he was bested and bullied by
James and Sirius, which must have happened many times, but that Lilly called
him "Snivellus" in front of others.   SS is clearly deeply unhappy, and his
distress has a lot to do with James, I think -- but I don't think his
relationship with James could possibly be enough by itself for either his
general unhappiness or his animosity to Harry.  If his conflict with James
resulted in his loss of the love of his life, and her death resulted when he
could have prevented it (because James wouldn't listen), that indeed makes
his attitude to Harry (who looks so much like James, but has Lilly's eyes)
believable.   Harry would be a constant, living reminder to him of the
ultimate failure of his life.

Assuming this would be true, aren't the potential emotional repurcussions
for Harry when he finds this out simply awesome?

As to the difference in how casually or maliciously LV said he would be
killing Severus, it would mean that he had known beforehand that he couldn't
bend SS that far, so his desertion and opposition at that moment was
somewhat understandable.  (I'm not implying that LV is even slightly
understanding or forgiving of the failures of others; only that he is a
superb manipulator who understands how others work enough to realize his
mistake with Severus.)  I would expect, of course, that he would want to
drag SS out in front of all the other DEs, and torture him to death slowly,
as an example to the others not to have the same thoughts.  (Hmmm.  Harry
rescues Severus, anyone?)  

What is lacking in LV's comment is the animosity associated with personal
betrayal, which seems very out of character for LV, which in turn makes me
think there are other things behind SS's defection, in LV's eyes.

Vivamus, who seriously hopes JKR participates on this list in some fashion