JKR's Messages (was Re: Hermione In Trouble?)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 120805


Pippin wrote:
> > I think what she means by innate goodness is that the Trio's sense
of right and wrong is maturing on schedule and hasn't been damaged.
They are revolted by cruelty, as  Draco and Snape are not, and their
ability to form attachments to others and their desire to see fair
play are intact and broadening. That makes them very different from
Tom Riddle. <snip>
> 
SSSusan responded:
> I certainly wouldn't disagree at all with what you're saying about
the trio's emotional and moral development.  The question remaining 
is whether that is or isn't what JKR is referring to when she talks 
about the trio's "innate goodness."  My thought was along the lines 
of the first part of what you described:  that their sense of right &
wrong is maturing on schedule and -- I would add -- appropriately, 
per JKR's definition of appropriately.

Carol adds:
I don't know about either of you, but I'm bothered by the word
"innate," which suggests that their goodness is inborn--a concept very
much at odds with the idea of choice. If they're innately good, they
can make mistakes (and they do), but they can't become evil. In
contrast, Tom Riddle, who unquestionably is or becomes evil, cannot be
innately good. Is he evil by his own choice, a choice denied the
"innately good" Trio, or is he innately evil, in which case his
choices were preordained and not choices at all? If *some* people are
innately good, why wouldn't *all* people be? Surely good and evil are
meaningful concepts only if those who choose them do so knowingly and
willingly? Surely Harry's heroism is meaningful only if he could,
through his own deliberate choices (not errors), fall into evil
himself? If, for example, he had sustained that Crucio of Bellatrix,
willing her to suffer and enjoying her suffering, wouldn't both he and
his action be evil? And wouldn't Harry, if he were "innately good," be
immune from such temptations? He came, IMO, perilously close to making
Tom's choices at that point and may come closer still. But he must
*choose* not to take Tom's road, and Tom himself must have *chosen* to
take it, or they are both merely puppets, one born to be good and the
other born to be evil, neither fully human and neither in charge of
his own destiny.

Pippin wrote:
> > Harry *did* get  a punishment. He's quite sure Snape embarrassed
him in front of the duelling club for throwing the firework. Ron
didn't take part in the theft, IIRC, so it makes sense that nothing
much happened to him. 
> 
> 
SSSusan responded:
> Yes, Harry's convinced he got *Snape's* punishment.  But is that the
same thing as JKR's punishment?  That's what I'm trying to gather:
whether the "consequences" -- punishments, comeuppances, whatever 
one calls them -- are being shown as JUST, as RIGHT by the author; 
that is, that she *agrees* with them.  *Is* that what we get with 
Harry being humiliated by Snape -- a clear message to the readership 
that Harry's getting what he truly deserves?  Or is it just "one 
more instance" of Snape being unfair in Harry's eyes?

Carol adds:
Without getting into the Snape aspect of this discussion, it seems
clear to me that both Harry and Hermione (and probably Ron as well)
need a clearer sense that actions have consequences. If you break
rules, you're punished; if you ignore people's feelings, they will
respond angrily; if you act without thinking, you'll make things worse
instead of better. I don't know if that's how JKR sees things--she
seems to be a little fonder of "the end justifies the means if you're
a Gryffindor" than I would like--but I think and hope that both (or
all) of them will learn from their experiences and act more wisely in
future books.

That's what a bildungsroman is all about--the journey from Innocence
through Experience to Wisdom. And I hope that all three of our young
protagonists arrive intact at the end of the journey, having learned
from their previous mistakes that good intentions don't always have
good consequences and that the means is just as important as the end.

Well, that's my morality, anyway. I'm not certain that it's JKR's.

Carol, who wishes that real-life experience led to wisdom as it does
in the Romantic tradition