Despised Lackey or Social Equal?

[Julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 90226

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> Carol wrote:
> I'm not sure how you're defining "elite" and "non-elite" here, but 
my sense of WW aristocracy is that it's based primarily on blood, 
though > money matters, especially if it's unearned income based on 
inheritance and investments.>> 

For myself I meant non-elite meaning not of the highest social 
position or the  aristocracy.  I see more of a white collar or small 
businessman/craftsman background, or small independent landowner.  
Respectable but not super wealthy or titled.  (For some unexplainable 
reason, I see Snape as having more of an urban upbringing.  Go 
figure, I don't know why.  Perhaps its my secret impression that he'd 
make a nasty street fighter).  Lucius Malfoy I see as representative 
of an elite/aristocratic background of wealth and privilege.  I agree 
pedigree would be the ultimate definition.  Not all the money in 
Gringotts would buy acceptance without the proper breeding.  But 
having both would be lovely.  

Carol, excellent point about Draco's knowlege of who is and who isn't 
muggle-born.  When parentage and bloodlines define who one is, I 
would image that those to whom it's important make an early point of 
familiarizing themselves with who's acceptable and who isn't.  
Another point why Snape is probably more, rather than less, 
pureblooded.  Draco, hasn't always known his wizardly Debrett's.  He 
made that faux pas at the robe shop when he first met Harry, and 
before he had command of the nuances, assuming that since the boy's 
parents were "our kind" ie a witch and wizard, that the boy was 
someone he could be friends with (sorry books not handy to check 
exact wording).   

Poor Draco, left himself wide open there and ended up rejected.  I've 
always wondered if that could have ended differently.  Draco's 
spoiled, brattiness aside, the slytherin children definately have a 
strick against them from the other houses before they can do anything 
to earn it.  Tar is so sticky.  Perhaps this is another point to add 
under Snape's reinvention of himself, a reinvention of Slytherin 
House.  Even if there were, as you suggest, no other Slytherins 
teaching at the time, it might 
explain why Snape was appointed House master at such a young age.

> Eloise wrote:> <snip> So if Snape is from a respectable, 
purebloodline and he's apparently not betraying that inheritance, 
then I think that Lucius would treat him pretty much as an equal on 
that level. However  even within that parity of social standing, 
money or the lack of it> would play a part. <snip> I couldn't see 
Severus being Lucius' first> choice to marry his (notional) sister, 
for instance, if a wealthier> wizard with similar credentials came 
along.>>>>

Julie:  No, probably not.  I was pondering whether 
Snape had enough "credentials" to rate an invitation to tea, much 
less an invitation to both ceremony and reception.  Being acceptable 
to invite to dinner or stand up with the sister at a dance is one 
thing, being acceptable as suitor is a whole next level with 
additional criteria for acceptance.    

I grew up in a small western town in the US.  We didn't have a 
rigid 'class' distinction of wealth or pedigree--too small for that.
Looking back of course, I see from an adult perspective that 
while "all are equal, some are more equal than others" to loosely 
paraphrase George Orwell.  

Along your wedding example, in my small town (so small most 
everyone's related to some degree---made me think of the 
tapestry at the Black house) it was taken for granted that the whole 
town was invited to the wedding.  But there were some that you 
definately gave a personalized invitation, and who sat where and how 
long they stayed at the reception (or if they went to the reception) 
said something about where they stood in the town 
hierarchy.  The nuances were there, but I didn't see them til I was 
older.  Even though I moved there when I was 3 and I took my 
step=dad's name, its my 1/2 siblings who "belong" while I'm still 
the "step-daughter" when long time residents explain who I am to 
others.   I wonder how many generations it will take for Hermione 
and/or her children to "belong" in the eyes of the more traditional 
social matrons of the WW?

> Carol: <snip> I think there's> a touch of patronization (is that a 
word?) in Malfoy's attitude toward> Snape, though the only evidence I 
have for that is Sirius's catty> reference to Snape as Malfoy's lap 
dog. 

Oh gosh!  You have an excellent point here (and I agree, Sirius was 
catty for a dog person).  If Sirius was refering 
to the youthful Snape's 'adoption' by the older Malfoy & Gang while 
at school, that would explain that more satisfactorily.  Carol, your 
thought that Snape is spying via his friendship(?) with Lucius makes 
the most sense to me of the various theories I've run across.  And 
explains why Snape is so put out at Sirius's doggy-persona 
appearance.  Who was it said that Wormtail, as LV's right hand, 
probably spilled the Mauraders' secret animal identities?  If Snape 
was surprised enough he might have a hard time explaining why he 
knows the black lab is Black, especially if he's not in contact with 
the Death Eaters in general, but gets his info at one remove through 
Lucius. 

I do hope that Snape has other friends than Lucius, regardless of the 
quality or reason behind the 'friendship'.  Too much of 'my friend, 
my enemy.' 

> Julie:> Snape is <snip> almost meek, in his dealings with 
> Doris Umbridge).
> 
> Carol:
> Meek? That's not how I read the scene. He clearly has as much 
contempt> for Delores Umbridge as McGonagall does and is not about to 
let her> control his class or to give her information that he regards 
as onone> of her business.("I suggest you ask Professor Dumbledore.") 
Umbridge intimidates Trelawney and confuses Hagrid, giving her 
grounds to> report them as incompetent and suggest their removal. 
Snape gives her> no such ammunition.>

Julie:  Perhaps meek was a poor choice of words.  I agree totally, he 
despises Umbridge  just as much as McGonnagal does, if not more, and 
is not about to let her use him to achieve her own agenda.   But 
comparing Snape and McGonnagal's responses to Umbridge, I thought 
that Snape was being quite toned down from his usual nasty, 
dominating manner and was deliberately careful in making his 
answers.  

In fact he seems a bit careful during the entire class session.  He 
employs his usual sneering tone on the students, but doesn't
employ any of his usual insulting personal comments.  When Harry 
botches his potion, he merely comments that it's "no points
again, 
then,Potter" and has Harry write an essay on why his potion
failed.

Nor does Snape go for his usual belittlement of Neville Longbottom, 
and he had a perfect opportunity. Neville clearly being physically 
restrained from attacking Draco when Snape came to the door.  I 
imagine he must have had to work fast to avoid Umbridge following him 
to the door to see what all the ruckus was about.  Of all days to 
have part of his class physically fighting each other, it had to be 
the day Umbridge was monitoring! And it had to be Lucius' son who was 
being attacked.  

McGonnagal at one point admonishs Harry to guard his mouth and 
remember who Umbridge works for.  Clearly this is a lesson Snape has 
already learned, without Deloris' constant reminders that she 
represents the MofM.  I think Snape is well aware of how much Deloris 
idolizes Lucius Malfoy as the Minister's dear friend and supporter 
(and  hopes for his patronage for her own career), and how 
much damage she can do to his Hogwarts existance (for 
example she's already meddling in his curriculum), not even 
considering how she can hurt the war against LV.  

I imagine that dealing with Umbridge—aside from the danger she 
represents—must really gall Snape.  As a Slytherin, Snape must
pride himself on being subtle and discreet in his manipulation, and 
it must be frustrating to watch as Deloris just lays it on with a 
trowel, using the sensitivity of a bludger.  

Thank you so much for your insights, Eloise and Carol!
Julie