Harry, Neville, and Snape

[charlot7542]

No: HPFGUIDX 90368

Kneasy wrote:
> IMO too  many posters are under-estimating Snape and just 
> looking at him from Harry's point of view. That's too simplistic;  
> he is by far the most complex character in the series and to  
> dismiss him as a mindless bully is a mistake. 

Now Charlotte (sorry had to butt into the conversation)

I certainly don't think Snape is a mindless bully. He is an 
incredibly complicated character, but you can't get past the fact 
that he is a bully nevertheless. Don't get me wrong - I love Snape 
and I do think that he was treated absolutely terribly by James and 
Sirius if that one scene in the pensieve is anything to go by. But 
the fact of the matter is that he has never been able to get past 
those childhood experiences and indeed continues to behave in a very 
childish way by taking out his grudge on the son of James. As 
someone in a position of authority at a place of education no less, 
he really should know better - the way he behaves is an example for 
those children in his care. 

Kneasy:
> We know  that he is playing a double or even a triple game. 
> He's an important member of the Order, possibly the only one 
> able to get information directly from the DEs, meanwhile
> maintaining friendly contacts with his old chums without raising 
> their suspicions. DD trusts him absolutely and Harry does not have 
> a clue what Snape is really up to. Harry is little more than an 
> ignorant child commenting on a very dangerous game being played 
> by experienced adults and thinking he knows best.
<snip>
> Meanwhile Snape keeps on walking his tightrope; one false step and
> he could, quite literally, be dead. He taunts Harry and Neville in 
> class yet he's the one who's around to surreptitiously save Harry's 
> neck. 

And Charlotte
Yes, I do believe that he is playing a very dangerous game and at 
great personal risk, but there's a difference between his activities 
as a member of the Order, which relate to his ideological beliefs, 
and personal gripes and hurt pride. Even if he feels that he has to 
maintain a front when teaching Malfoy and the other children of 
death eaters in potions class, you can't tell me that Snape doesn't 
enjoy tormenting Harry. In his head I have no doubt that Snape 
equates Harry with James - he as much as tells him that he's getting 
arrogant like his father at one point. It must really irk him that 
the son of his hated rival is such a celebrated and important 
person. And now in the classroom situation he has James's substitute 
in a place where he wields the authority. It's not like he's not 
going to use this advantage. It's a way that he can take out his 
childhood frustrations and still justify it to himself. And of 
course, don't forget that Snape continues to treat Harry with 
complete disdain even when they are alone together - like in their 
Occlumency lessons. I agree that Harry can be headstrong and make 
mistakes, but what about Severus refusing to teach him Occlumency 
even though he must have realised how important it was. This was for 
purely personal reasons - Harry saw one of Snape's worst memories 
and Sev was embarrassed. He couldn't bear that Harry had personal 
ammunition against him and knowing nothing about Harry's character 
because he has never taken the time to separate him form the memory 
of his father, he assumed that Harry would use this against him. In 
actual fact, Harry was horrified and perhaps for the first time 
understood why Snape behaves as he does.


Kneasy:
> How does Harry behave towards him? And why does Harry act that way? 
> Pure adolescent pique. Harry wants what Harry wants and any curb or
> restriction is a personal affront. He knows that Snape is important 
> to the Order, he knows that DD trusts Snape, he knows Snape has saved 
> his neck, potentially on more than one occasion, yet he persists in 
> seeing everything in terms of his own feelings. Snape is wrong, Snape 
> is bad. 

Charlotte
In fact they both willfully misunderstand each other. I agree its 
easy for Harry to blame Snape for everything, but Snape's attitude 
invites this. Harry is gradually having to re-evaluate his feelings 
towards Snape as he learns more, but its going to take a while. At 
the end of OTP when Harry blames Snape for the death of Sirius its 
completely understandable - he's coming from a position of hurt and 
not wanting to blame himself and certainly not Sirius for rashness 
he lashes out at the most convenient scapegoat. I'm sure in his 
heart of hearts that he doesn't really believe this. He hasn't 
forgotten that Snape is working for the order and that DD trusts 
him. Actually Ron's always the one to jump on the "Snape is bad" 
bandwagon. 

Kneasy:
> It's about time he grew up.

Charlotte:
Agreed that Harry's going to have to control his temper and 
rashness, but remember he's only 15 years old and (literally) has 
the weight of the world on his shoulders - this is not normal teen-
angst. Sure it wouldn't hurt for him to see things from Snape's 
point of view, but your asking something from a teenager that Snape, 
a man close to 40 has never demonstrated. A little mutual 
understanding would go a long way.

Charlotte.