Twins, time turner, the same person?

[meriaugust]

No: HPFGUIDX 91112

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lizvega2" <lizvega2 at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "meriaugust" 
<meriaugust at y...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Just a couple of points. 
> > 1: Time turners are highly regulated by the MoM. Professor 
> McGonagal 
> > had to go through quite a bit of paperwork for Hermione to use 
one 
> > for her classes, and even then she was sworn to secrecy. I doubt 
> > very much that the tiwns could be using an unregulated time 
turner 
> > without ANYONE knowing anything about it. It doesn't seem like 
the 
> > kind of thing left lying around in a junk shop, does it? In 
fact, 
> if 
> > I remember correctly, there is (or was) a whole cabinet full of 
> them 
> > in the DoM. This is probably where all time turners come from. 
And 
> > for Fred and George to use it so recklessly (ie: to win a bet) 
is 
> > almost out of character. They may be trouble makers, but don't 
> seem 
> > to be into anything illegal. 
> 
> SNIP
> 
> LizVega now:
> 
> Illegal? Fred and George? How about flying the car to pick up 
Harry 
> in COS? How about the marauders map that they STOLE from Filch's 
> office? How about buying something disgusting, and illegal, from 
> Mundungus Fletcher? (I can't remember what it was, but I think 
Molly 
> would've been upset by it.)Or, how about in OOP when they shoved 
> Montague? into the vanishing cabinet? And, never told anyone where 
> he was. Or all of the mayhem they did 'for dumbledore' before they 
> left. I think that, in the current WW, there's a vast difference 
> between what is RIGHT, morally so to speak, and what is legal. The 
> ministry traded with Willy what's-his-name to get info. about the 
> DA. Is that right? No, but it was legal. 

Meri again: First off, you have a point. F&G have always been rule 
benders and breakers, but I personally see a distinction between 
raising a little hell at school and breaking a federal law, or 
whatever it is that time traveling without permission will get you 
in the WW. And as to the differences between what is right and what 
is moral in the WW, deals like Willy Widershins (information for 
immunity) are made in the real world as well. I'm not talking about 
the morality or the legality of the twins other actions. I just 
think that something that is as regulated as time travel (which we 
know is regulated because of McGonagal having to go through 
paperwork and get special permission for Hermione to use one for 
lessons) would be a little harder for F&G to get at, as opposed to, 
say, Mungdungus' black market deals. 

> 
> > 2. It is very easy for a parent to mix up the names of their 
> > children, even after more than thirteen years. I have been 
called 
> by 
> > my sister's name for a good bit of my life and we are not 
> identical. 
> > It happens sometimes, especially in a family of that size.
> 
> SNIP
> 
> LizVega now:
> 
> I understand what you're saying about being called by a siblings 
> name. I was called everything from my sister, brother, to the 
family 
> dog! But, the instance that I referred to is not the same 
> as 'accidentally' being called by a different name. Molly calls, 
the 
> one she assumes to be Fred, Fred. She apologizes when they tell 
her 
> she was wrong, but after that, when 'fred' goes through the 
barrier, 
> and tells her he was only joking...she still doesn't know the 
> difference. If my mum was looking at me and my sister, she might 
> call us by the wrong name, but if she was looking at us while she 
> said it, she would know she made a mistake. Molly didn't know the 
> difference. And, what did George say to her?, "And you call 
yourself 
> our mother?" How odd that he says that!  
> > 

Meri again: I always read that scene as Molly being very distracted. 
After all, she had four kids, including first year Ron to get on the 
train, had to keep ten year old Ginny in sight and not attract the 
attention of a station full of muggles. She had enough on her mind, 
and I can see how she would make a mistake in this situation. I 
always thought these lines were to emphasize how alike the twins 
are, identical to the last freckle, they are. And as to his "call 
yourself our mother" line, that's pretty much in line with F&G's 
sarcastic sense of humor. After all, they walk down the halls at 
Hogwarts announcing Harry as a "seriously evil wizard" and "heir of 
Slytherin." That line is totally in character and, IMHO, not odd at 
all. 
 
> 3. I don't know how Molly could give birth to one baby and then 
all 
> > of a sudden have two identical kids there without any rational 
> > explanation. Even Arthur isn't henpecked enough not to notice 
that 
> > sort of thing, and Bill and Charlie would at least have some 
> memory 
> > of the infant twins. 
> 
> SNIP
> 
> LizVega now:
> 
> I'm not saying that the Weasley's aren't aware of it. If my theory 
> has even a drop of truth to it, then Arthur and Molly would have 
to 
> know about it. If there is something different about the twins, 
> though, it might explain why Molly forgets about them, and seems 
> more strict with them than the other children. 

Meri here: Molly is stricter with the twins because, IMHO, they 
needed to be disciplined more than her other kids. She treats them 
differently because, personality wise, they ARE different from the 
other five. Where Bill and Percy were good and responsible students 
(as evidenced by their OWLs and Head Boy-ship) and Charlie was 
focused and driven to a respecatable career, F&G were slackers and 
troublemakers. They had to be dealt with differently. They are also 
middle children, and middle children are frequently pushed aside for 
their older, more accomplished sibs and their younger, more needy 
sibs. It happens. Besides, Arthur seems not to know, or to really 
want to know what his middle sons are up to for the most part. And I 
can't see Molly being so strict with them if they were creating 
mischief for good reason. 

I don't even 
> necessarily believe that they are one person, but I definitely 
think 
> they're using a time turner. And, their father works for the 
> ministy, as does their brother 

Meri again: I don't see rule-worshipping Percy provinding an illegal 
time turner to the twins, especially before his Crouch-induced 
defection from the Weasly fold. And Arthur is so low at the MoM that 
his office is smaller than a broom cupboard and his name isn't 
spelled right in the presses. I don't see him getting access, 
either. 

 Harry and the others proved that 
> it really doesn't take more than a smile to get into the dept. of 
> mysteries. It's not that unlikely that the twins could have 
knicked 
> one. 

Meri finally finishing up: Harry and the others showed us that it 
doesn't take more than a smile to get in to the DoM in the middle of 
the night when the way has been cleared by a horde of Death Eaters 
lying in wait for you to arrive into their clutches. I would assume 
that any guards that normally staff the DoM were taken care of long 
before Harry and the DA even climbed on the thestrals. After all, 
Sturgis Podmore got caught breaking in, and he was a fully qualified 
wizard. 

Meri (who apologizes for her longwindedness and promises to eat her 
words if she be proven wrong)