Let the cat out of the Bag(man)

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 91630

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
 
> Kneasy:
> Just to raise a point: 
> As organiser of the tasks it would be Bagman's job to carry the Cup into
> the maze. But Crouch!Moody tells Harry that it was he who put the Portkey
> spell on the Cup and presumably he was the last person to touch it before 
> Harry did. So why were no-one's suspicions aroused by Crouch!Moody 
> parading around with the Cup? 
> Very odd.

Annemehr:
Feeling the need to have things clear in my mind, I looked the details up.  Crouch
actually doesn't talk about the portkey until the end of his Veritaserum interrogation:

"I offered to carry the Triwizard Cup into the maze before dinner," whispered Barty
Crouch.  "Turned it into a Portkey.[...]"  (GoF, the end of ch. 35)

I imagine the cup had to be carried into the maze and set in its place at the center
*before* being turned into a Portkey because it was set so that the next person
who touched it would activate it.  But as this was done "before dinner," I don't believe
there were many people around to witness Crouch!Moody doing it.  Interesting that
Barty Crouch does not say to *whom* he offered to place the Cup in the maze --
but most likely only Bagman was there as Crouch Sr. was already dead.  Not much
risk to Crouch Jr. that I can see -- certainly no more than for putting Harry's name
into the Goblet.

Kneasy:
> 
> It could be that Crouch!Moody had inducted Bagman to act as an unwitting
> fall guy. [...] Bagman as organiser would have fallen under suspicion.
> But if Crouch!Moody hadn't told Bagman his plans, questioning, even with
> Veratiserum, would not produce answers.
> 
> So how does the idea that Bagman!Gofer, thinking that he's helping 
> Crouch!Moody fix the competition (and making a few Galleons on the side)
> but being cast as 'Most Wanted" grab you? Gred and Forge tell  Harry that
> Bagman made a run for it "right after the third task.' It'd be interesting to
> know if that was after Harry vanished but before Harry returned. If it was
> then maybe he was smart enough to see that he had been set up.
> This is becoming satisfactorily devious.

Annemehr:
Bagman as fall guy works for me, but it would probably be temporary.  Bagman,
if ever questioned, would reveal that it was Moody (as he thought) who carried
the Cup into the maze.  However, I don't believe Crouch was intended to try to
remain at Hogwarts; the teaching job was only for the one year, after all.  If all
had gone as planned, I don't think suspicion would have fallen on Crouch until
he had rejoined Voldemort.

It is interesting to speculate on why Bagman made his sudden departure.
The possibilities I can think up:
1. He was a DE, had no idea LV was back until his Mark burned, went to the graveyard.
2. When Harry disappeared, thought his bet was lost, fled from Goblins immediately.
3. He was a DE and in on the plans, went to the graveyard.
4. He got scared at the sight of Cedric's body, fled to escape responsibility for a 
champion's death.  Maybe afraid he'd been set up, maybe just plain scared.
5. Gred and Forge thought Bagman ran for it right after the third task for fear of the goblins.
For that to be true, it would have to have been after Harry returned, and Bagman would
have to have thought he won and then had his conversation with the goblins who said
Harry didn't win, he'd only tied.  Was so afraid of goblins he ran.

Actually, many of these can be true at the same time.

 Interesting we've never heard anything of Bagman in OoP except that the *Ministry*
wouldn't honor his personal debts to the goblins.  If the goblins are going after the 
Ministry for their money, doesn't that suggest that Bagman himself is now nowhere
to be found?  If he's still working at his job, they could take part of his wages, couldn't
they?   Would a large debt to the goblins make a wizard feel the need to
disappear?  If that's true, I don't know how one could include the goblins among the
oppressed races of beings.  If Bagman is a DE, would his fear of the goblins and his
involvement in the disastrous Triwizard Tournament be enough to cause him to flee
to Voldemort and stay there?  'Course, *Dumbledore* was involved in the TWT, it was
all his idea as a matter of fact, and he isn't taking any flak about it at all, apparently.

> 
> annemehr:
> > I just wish we knew more about the use of portkeys at Hogwarts.
<snip>

> Kneasy:
> True.
> Both times that we know about DD set up a Portkey arrival /departure in 
> his study. (To get the crowd to  Grimmauld Place when Arthur was
> attacked and to get back after the MoM fight.)

Annemehr:
Yeah, and DD Flooed into his office to meet Harry there after the DoM battle and
talking to Fudge (or giving Fudge a good talking to!).

Kneasy:
> Then there was the Cup. I have problems with the idea that DD knowingly
> allowed someone to spell the Cup. What excuse could the person give?
> Everything was set up for a grand celebration at Hogwarts when the winner
> was declared. Why on Earth should DD agree with making the winner vanish
> at the moment of victory? 
> This would mean that a Portkey can be set up without DD's knowledge or
> approval.

Annemehr:
At a TWT in a nice, normal, non-Voldemort year, it would have made perfect sense.
The winner wouldn't vanish, he or she would suddenly appear at the maze entrance
holding the victory cup. Cue celebrations.  *That* year, however, it seems very
foolhardy.  Perhaps Crouch/Moody, when informing DD of the plan to have the Cup 
portkey the winner to the entrance, made a show of concern for security and then 
assured DD that he himself would set the Cup/Portkey up to be sure it wasn't tampered 
with.  And DD trusts him like James and Lily trusted Pettigrew, and removes the
portkey prevention just for the Cup.

Yes, I know.  But it's still better than to think that Crouch could have portkeyed Harry
out of Hogwarts at any time with any object and less chance of suspicion ever falling
on himself.

Annemehr
whose thoughts on the subject are very amoeba-like, refusing to assume a shape and
stay that way