Let the cat out of the Bag(man)

[maneelyfh]

No: HPFGUIDX 91674

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> > Bagman as fall guy works for me, but it would probably be 
temporary.  Bagman,
> > if ever questioned, would reveal that it was Moody (as he 
thought) who carried
> > the Cup into the maze.  
SNIP
> > It is interesting to speculate on why Bagman made his sudden 
departure.
> > The possibilities I can think up:
> > 1. He was a DE, had no idea LV was back until his Mark burned, 
went to the graveyard.
> > 2. When Harry disappeared, thought his bet was lost, fled from 
Goblins immediately.
> > 3. He was a DE and in on the plans, went to the graveyard.
> > 4. He got scared at the sight of Cedric's body, fled to escape 
responsibility for a 
> > champion's death.  Maybe afraid he'd been set up, maybe just 
plain scared.
> > 5. Gred and Forge thought Bagman ran for it right after the third 
task for fear of the 
> goblins.
SNIP> 
> Kneasy:
> It's difficult to get a grip on Bagman in these circumstances - 
Crouch!Moody keeps
> muddying the waters. He is acting like a true fanatic, serving his 
Master is the only 
> thing that matters, nothing is allowed to get in his way and 
everything is there to be
> used and if necessary, discarded; Winky, Crouch Snr, Moody and 
probably Bagman.
> Is Bagman playing his own chosen role or one chosen for him by 
Crouch!Moody?
> 
> Certainly Bagman would be a useful addition to the coterie of Voldy 
henchwizards; 
> everybody likes him and nobody takes him seriously.  He's  regarded 
as an amiable
> fool, SNIP> 
> But it's the  scene in the forest that fascinates me, lots of 
undertones and hints.
> 
> It's interesting that it is just before the Trio meet Bagman they 
run into Winky. 
> She rushes out of the undergrowth  and warns them that there are 
bad 
> wizards about. Did she mean at the campsite or right there in the 
wood?
> They then encounter Bagman, in the woods after having a business 
discussion
> with Goblins, or so he says later. 
> When told of the trouble at the camp-site his response is "Damn 
them!" (Hint
> that he knows who the participants are?) He then disparates. (Where 
to?) He
> re-appears after  Winky is discovered with Harry's wand. He witters 
on about the
> Dark Mark and slides past Crouch's query about where he has been by 
himself
> asking why Crouch hadn't been in his seat at the Cup. (Hint that he 
knew who
> was in the seat.) Diggory questions Winky as to who conjured the 
Dark Mark and
> Winky's eyes flicker from Diggory *to Bagman* and then to Crouch. 
(Winky thinks
> or knows that Bagman is involved somehow.)
>  
> Anne:
> >  Interesting we've never heard anything of Bagman in OoP except 
that the *Ministry*
> > wouldn't honor his personal debts to the goblins.  If the goblins 
are going after the 
> > Ministry for their money, doesn't that suggest that Bagman 
himself is now nowhere
> > to be found?  If he's still working at his job, they could take 
part of his wages, couldn't
> > they?   Would a large debt to the goblins make a wizard feel the 
need to
> > disappear?  If that's true, I don't know how one could include 
the goblins among the
> > oppressed races of beings.  If Bagman is a DE, would his fear of 
the goblins and his
> > involvement in the disastrous Triwizard Tournament be enough to 
cause him to flee
> > to Voldemort and stay there?  'Course, *Dumbledore* was involved 
in the TWT, it was
> > all his idea as a matter of fact, and he isn't taking any flak 
about it at all, apparently.
> > 
> 
> Kneasy:
> Don't know about the US but in Britain private gambling debts are 
not recoverable
> in law. If somebody doesn't pay up, you're stuffed. Unless that 
person was acting as
> an agent for a third party, in which case you go after them. Fudge 
playing with the 
> Ministry budget? Sounds silly, but why did the Goblins try to dun 
the MoM? No
> organisation will intervene in a private wager gone bad. 
> 
> Personally, I've never thought of Goblins as an oppressed 
race. 'Barely restrained'
> is the phrase I'd go for. Re-read the description of Hagrid and 
Harry going into 
> Gringotts in PS/SS. Hagrid sounds cautious, wary. He knows Goblins 
are powerful
> and touchy. So Bagman in hiding has a plausibility about it, but 
why should he be
> in hiding for only one reason? If he also sees himself in the frame 
for the TWT fiasco,
> then he's got two very good reasons for keeping his head down.


I posted sometime ago that Bagman was a DE. Part of it was the forest 
scene in GOF, the other part is the wasp that keeps showing up. 
Bagman was a Wimbly Wasp and seems to always be wearing his old 
quidditch uniform.  I think he is the wasp flying around in GOF when 
Harry and Hermione are practicing spells in the classroom, and again 
when Harry is taking OWL's.  Right before he falls asleep and has the 
dream of Sirius being tortured, Harry notices a wasp flying around 
the window outside. The bet with the Goblins is just a side story to 
lead us away from Bagmans true cause: watching Harry for LV. Also, I 
just dont think we have seen all the DE's.  In GOF, I think, one of 
the DE's states he didnot know all the DE's.  I would grab books and 
give page numbers but I have a badly broken bone in my lt foot and 
carry books and hobble on crutches!
Fran