[HPforGrownups] Re: Let's hear it for good old Snapey!

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 88048

Alla:

> As I said I love your theory, I find it the most logical and
> believable one especially because it seems to acknowledge that
> Snape's first and foremost concerned about self-preservation (not
> about Harry's best interests all the time), which is understandable
> and entirely reasonable if he spies on Voldemort directly, or if he
> at least has to be somewhere nearby him (as Animagus, vampire or
> whoever), but even though this quote
> "it is not up to you to find out what the Dark lord is saying to his
> Death Eaters.
> No- that's your job, isn't it?" Harry shot at him. ....
> "Yes, Potter", he said, his eyes glinting, "That's my job. Now, if
> you are ready, we will start again..." (OoP, p.531)
> makes a  very strong case for Snape returning to his spy activities,
> it is not necessarily the only interepretation, don't you agree?
>
> I mean, Severus may be a spy indeed, but on Lucius Malfoy, for
> example, where he does not need to use his Occlumence skills.

A couple of points.

Lucius must be a skilled wizard to have Imperius'd Unspeakables. He is also
sharp enough to know Voldemort's nature and ego. It would be in his
own--Lucius'--best interests to be skilled at either Legilimency or
Occlumency or both. A slippery character like him, he'd want to retain some
control, and/or an ace in the hole, and be able to lie if he needed to. He
is not a typical sycophant or subservient character. So even *if* Snape is
only spying on the Malfoys, it's far from clear that he *wouldn't* need
Occlumency and the protection of cubbyholing his memories.

However, in my opinion, the circumstantial evidence points to Snape spying
on Voldemort himself. It just doesn't *feel* like the foot-stomping red
herrings we've seen before (although I may be wrong). For instance--Harry
didn't tell Snape that his memory of Rookwood had been from Voldemort's
perspective. We are not told whether the memory itself told Snape what it
was, but from what Snape mentions: "that man and that room"--he recognized
them and knew what they were, and what Harry's seeing them meant.

> He may not even be a spy among Death Eaters, but do something
> completely different ( if we are to accept as a given that he lies
> most of the time, he could as well lie to Harry). he could be a
> Vampire, etc...

?? I don't think he lies very often at all. And I don't think he *ever* lies
blatantly. If there is one characteristic of Snape that we *do* know, it is
that he values *subtlety.* A subtle liar very, very seldom, if ever, states
an untruth. That has no finesse, no art. No, a subtle liar will build up and
then lean on false impressions, omit key things, and state perfect truth,
having laid the ground for misinterpretation. To draw a fine
distinction--Snape is not a *liar,* he is a *deceiver.*

Example, from Watership Down:
Bigwig, a rabbit, has entered a hostile warren to try to steal some does
[females]. The rest of the raiding party are hiding nearby; they have not
entered the warren. Before this, while on their way to the warren, they
accidentally ran across some rabbits from the warren. After Bigwig goes into
the warren, he is recognized by one of the rabbits they ran into. The Chief
Rabbit of the warren asks him if he knows anything about these other rabbits
(Bigwig's friends). What Bigwig says is, "I saw their tracks about the same
time, too, sir. I can't tell you any more than that."

Perfect truth. Totally misleading. This, I think, is what Snape does. A
subtle art and exact science, to be sure.

That said--it takes a *very* great deal of effort to be an effective liar.
One must expend mental energy to remember to whom one said what, which
tissues of misinterpretation one has set up for which individuals, etc. I
don't think Snape would consider most people to be worth that level of
effort. I think the *cause* is worth it to him, but I think his energies in
misleading are focused there, not wasted elsewhere for lesser reasons.

> One more comment - suppose he is indeed a spy among the death eaters
> and the war is over and both he and Harry surivived. So, for so many
> years he was working so hard to keep his hatred of Harry alive. Do
> you think he will be able to get rid of it? I think that by  keeping
> his emotions directed on Harry alive for Voldemort to see, Snape has
> no choice but hate the boy for real. :o)

Okay, first off, I don't think Snape will survive. I think he's toast.

Snape's actions must, for plot reasons, be validly misinterpretable by both
readers and Harry. I think it is Harry's hatred that I'm more interested in
monitoring as he matures. I think JKR is nothing short of ingenius in the
way she has forced both of them to learn more about each other, while
growing absolutely NO closer in the process. And I find an interesting bit
of possible foreshadowing in the way Harry had "willed Snape to read his
mind" or whatever the wording, in Umbridge's office.

It is a fond fantasy of mine, that I can see a scene coming where Harry must
face Voldemort, and Snape is present, and Harry must decide to trust Snape,
and Snape, through their understanding and connection forged during the
Occlumency lessons, shields Harry's mind from Voldemort. Such fertile ground
there, for further sharing of selves unwillingly.

Harry seems to be coming to a "faces/vase" point; one which his
interpretations of Snape consistently steer him away from. If you have seen
the optical illusion, the "which is it, two faces or a vase," you know what
I mean. Harry is choosing to consistently see Snape in one way only, to the
point where he will not let himself remember the man is in the Order when it
would have been a way to save Sirius. I think Harry will get to a point
where he suddenly sees the validity of the alternate interpretation--a
validity he has never acknowledged--and I am interested to see how he will
react to this perception.

I wonder if Harry didn't remember about Snape, because subconsciously he was
"protecting" Sirius from him, or maybe he didn't want Snape to get any
credit for saving him..? Doesn't explain forgetting about the gift,
though... oh, well.

We'll make a convert of you yet, Alla.

~Amanda