Stereotypical Sexism (was Re: Stereotypes, Sexism & Masterful Writing Reviewed)

[Laurence]

No: HPFGUIDX 88302

Hi All,
I like this subject a lot, especially because it IS controversial 
and I find it very often minimized


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
<snip>
> Stereotypes-
> 
> Stereotypes exist because they are real. Girls DO giggle too much
> (ask any guy), it IS in a woman nature to be nurturing and 
caregiving.

No, that is more than a stereotype, that a preconceived idea.

> It IS in the nature of men to be hunters and adventures. 

No, it was the case 1000 years ago, when you were a woman with 10 
kids, exhausted by 15 pregnancies; of course you let the guys go 
hunting
 but, for Merlin's sake, in 2004 (and already in 1990), 
first, you nearly choose if and when you want children, second, you 
don't need to go hunting to eat. And we don't see anything
against 
that for the WW.

>Men bring home the bacon, and women fry it up in a pan; that's a 
fact of life.

Saying "that's a fact of life", that's also what I call inconscient 
sexism. It WAS true, still 50 years ago. It isn't true anymore, but 
people still believe it is. 

<snip> 
> Sexism-
> 
> Sexism, like racism, implies a form of oppression. We do see women 
>in the HP series conforming to stereotypical female roles, BUT, and 
>this is a very BIG BUT, we do not see them forced into those roles.

I see your point, but we do not see them NOT forced into those roles 
either. 

> 
> Mrs. Weasley is a 'stay at home' mom, but she is not forced by 
>society to live that role. 

To be honest, we don't know
 We don't know either if it there are 
magical crèches or magical primary school, Ron, which is the
magical 
child Harry the closest to Harry, never speaks about his primary 
school. That could be quite difficult to be anything else than a 
stay at home mum if those don't exist. Also Petunia, Lily, Molly 
against Mrs Granger, that's three mothers against one we don't know 
anything other in their life than their children (a least according 
to the Lexicon, and speaking about "work"). 
I have nothing against stay at home Mum, but to free completely JKR 
from the accusation of "inconscient sexism", that I probably should 
call "stereotypical sexism", I would like for Harry to meet the 
husband of Tonks and her children (Yes I know she's too young, but 
you get my meaning).

>AND, and this is a very big AND, we do not know
> that Mrs. Weasley IS a stay at home mom. We see only a very small
> window into her life, and we see it through the distorted eyes of a
> small boy with very little life experience. That is, very little
> experience in the normal life of a regular boy.
> 
> It is entirely possible that Mrs. Weasley has a very full and rich
> life 'off-page'. However, since we have no information, we can draw
> few conclusions about her life.
>

Maybe Molly isn't a stay at home Mum, but Ron never talked about the 
job of her mother, instead we see Arthur and Percy going to work, 
and never have we heard about Molly having to take a day off to be 
there for her children, we never heard her talking about going back 
to work, even if Ginny isn't home anymore. It looks a lot like a 
stay at home Mum stereotype.

> In addition, Mrs. Weasley is a very strong character. I can't 
>think of a living soul in the wizard world who wouldn't cower, or 
>at least cringe, in the face of Mrs. Weasley when she was in a 
>towering rage.
> It's clear that Mrs. Weasley is a strong forceful woman who doesn't
> take any crap from anyone, big or small. She is not afraid to speak
> her mind, and it is clear that she, without a doubt, rules the 
>Weasley roost.

If she's so strong, why don't we ever hear about her public life? 
What I mean is, in fanon at least, it's quite common for Arthur to 
be candidate to be MoM which is to "govern" the +/- 30.000 wizards 
and witches of the UK, and Molly
 reigns over the 8 people of her 
family, well, sorry if I don't find it equal
 But I've never come 
across a fic where MOLLY becomes MoM (oooh, plot bunny there!), and 
I think that is quite connected to her canon description.

<snip> 
> So, my point is, that while we see women in typical women's roles, 
>and in many case, we see women engaging in stereotypical behavior, 
>we DO NOT, as far as I can see, see women forces into any of these 
>roles. 
<snip>

Same as before, I preach the "we don't know", and so for me 
stereotypical role means stereotypical sexism which is true 
for "our" world too. My point of view is that the space given for 
women in JKR's world is not better, and I would even say a little 
bit worse for what we have seen, than a European (or American) 
western country that I personally consider sexist.

For me, there is sexism as soon as you find it more "normal" to find 
a stay at home Mum, than a stay at home Dad (still not met in JKR's 
world, for how much Mum!), or that if you're a women with a career, 
you can't have children. Have we ever heard of the family members of 
the professors? Where are Mr Sprout, Mr Mac McGonagall, Monsieur 
Pince? Where are their children? (don't know you, but there was 
always a son, a niece, a cousin, of the professors in my school, 
especially if Hogwart is the only magical school).

Please add my two knuts to the common pot

I wait avidly your thoughts on the subject

Laurence