CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 9, The Woes of Mrs. Weasley - Discussion Questions

[dudemom_2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 88356

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "meriaugust" <meriaugust at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" 
<abigailnus at y...> 
> wrote:
> > Chapter 9 - The Woes of Mrs. Weasley
> > 
> > Abagail's Discussion Questions:
> > 
> > 1. How common do you think Muggle-baiting is? <Snip>  Arthur has 
been criticized as viewing Muggles in a patronizing, condescending 
manner ("Bless them!" is most often cited as an example of this 
attitude).  Does the fact that he seems to have an awareness of his 
society's troublesome attitudes towards Muggles counter that claim?  
Does Arthur's statement shed a new light on him?  


meriaugust said: 
> I would assume that muggle baiting is the reason for many things 
> that muggles take for granted as everyday experiences and certain 
> wizards use to get their jollies off (from the shrinking door keys 
> to the plumbing incidents). If he is condescending to them, I 
think that it is only because he appreciates that their ignorance of 
the magical world makes his job just a little easier. 

Dudemom_2000 says:
Arthur is actually unaware he is a bit patronizing towards muggles. 
It is sort of like saying, "Some of my best friends are....."  His 
attitude isn't unusual. Wizards know they have an edge on the 
muggles and he inadvertently reveals this with his "Bless them!" 
Arthur, IMHO, really likes muggles and he is fully aware some of his 
society's attitude toward muggles. 

>Snip<
> 
> > 3. Lucius greets Harry as 'Patronus Potter'.  Later in the book 
> > Bellatrix refers to Sirius as 'Animagus Black'.  In the latter 
> case, a person is referred to by the magical ability that 
distinguishes him - is this also true for Harry?  We know that his 
ability to conjure a corporeal Patronus is unusual in a boy so 
young, but does this ability - and the moniker - mark Harry as a 
protective figure (after all, in conjuring the Patronus, he was also 
> > protecting his helpless cousin)?  Is it significant that the 
only two people we've met who've used this fashion of referring to 
> > people are Death Eaters? 

meriaugust said:
I think that "patronus Potter" was just a term of condescension and 
> dislike, and that "animagus Black" was used to not only denote the 
> person Bellatrix was fighting, but also to distance herself from 
her cousin. 

Dudemom_2000 says:
I agree that 'Patronus Potter' is a condenscending term as 
is 'Animagus Black'. It is an attempt to denigrate both of them but 
in fact (especially in Harry's case)it backfires because it is 
actually a BIG compliment because most children his age can't do 
what he can do! I find the comment to be a rather toothless attempt 
to rile them.
> 
> > 4. There's a distinct note of bitterness in Arthur's voice when 
> > he speaks of Lucius Malfoy and especially of his money.  Money 
> > has always been a delicate issue around the Weasleys.  We 
> > know that Ron is embarrassed by his family's poverty, that Mrs. 
> > Weasley, when she breaks down momentarily at the beginning 
> > of GoF, expresses her frustration at her family's financial 
> > situation, and that Percy threw the money issue in his father's 
> > face during the row the precipitated his leaving home.  Does 
> > Arthur's tone of voice suggest that, despite his ideological 
> > reasons, he regrets choosing a lifestyle that isn't financially 
> > rewarding?  Does his resentment of Malfoy have financial 
> > underpinnings?

>meriagust said: 
> The Weasleys are the prototypical "poor but happy" family, or at 
> least they were until the begining of OotP. The resentment on 
> Arthur's part, I think, has to do with the fact that Malfoy can 
buy his way into the good graces of the minister, while Arthur and 
the others who are on the side of truth must struggle to get 
themselves heard. The Weasley's financial problems are not uncommon 
in the muggle world, and are a totally understandable source of 
stress for anyone. Arthur, having just seen his almost like a son 
Harry nearly get convicted by the Wizengamot for underage magic and 
confronted by his known rival, is understandaby stressed. And Ron's 
embarassment over his family's financail situation is also 
understandable: no one wants to be the poor kid at school who can't 
afford the latest shoes or cell phone or broomstick as the case may 
be. 
>
Dudemom_2000 says:
I think Arthur has a reasonable jealousy of Malfoy's ability 
to "grease" his way to what he wants but Arthur also knows he has 
taken the "high road" and all that it entails. I think he and Molly 
deeply feel the distress their children feel at not having anything 
better than used or hand me downs. However, I do think that is going 
to be a moot point shortly since the twins are on the fast track to 
success!  

> > 5. Having read the rest of OOP, there seems to be no reason to 
> > believe that Fudge is under the Imperius Curse, but how could 
> > Dumbledore know this for sure?

> meriaugust said:
> I think that Fudge's reaction is totally believable from what we 
saw at the end of GoF, before anyone had a chance to Imperio him (or 
> didn't they?). DD understands that Fudge will resist the knowledge 
> of LV's return, and I think that he acted as acordingly as his 
> character could, no Imperio about it.  
> 
Dudemom_2000 says:
I really don't think Fudge is under the Imperius Curse. Everyone 
else has behaved oddly and Fudge has pretty much stayed true to 
the "Petty Bureaucrat" mold. Fudge is out for the power but is blind 
to the consequences of what he is doing (Dumbledore even reminds him 
of that when he tells him he can do something or be known as the 
minister who did nothing). 

>Snip>
> > 7. Hermione's analysis of Sirius is the first instance of many 
in OOP in which she acts as Harry's emotional interpreter.  Why do 
> > you feel Rowling gave this role to Hermione?  Is it because 
she's a girl, and therefore more mature than either Harry or Ron at 
> > this point, or is it because Hermione has traditionally held the 
> > position of  information supplier in the Trio?  Do you believe 
> > that Hermione will continue in this role in later books, or will 
> > Harry develop emotional instincts of his own?  How does this 
> > acuity of Hermione's reflect on the usual perception of her as 
> > a non-intuitive person (as opposed to Luna, for example, who 
> > is usually held up as an example of an intuitive female)?

>meriaugust replied: 
> I think that this is totally in character for Hermione, especially 
> in the later examples when she tries to explain Cho and Ginny to 
> Harry and Ron. She is their female sounding board, anyway, and her 
> emotional maturity is being stressed here. I think, though, that 
> Harry will develop his own emotional instincts, and by the end of 
> OotP he allready has: when he feels sorrry for Luna and offers to 
> help her look for her posessions. Harry will grow up eventually. 
We just need to give him time to prosess. (Ron "insensitive wart" 
> Weasley, on the other hand, may need to be whipped into shape by 
> Hermione.)
>
Dudemom_2000 says:
Hermione simply continues to be the information supplier in this 
case, just on an emotional level. Girls are traditionally more 
mature at this age and since she is comfortable with Harry she 
speaks her mind. She is also trying to help Harry out by explaining 
about girls. Hermione seems to regard Ron as a lost cause because he 
is being purposely dense. She seems exasperated with both when they 
just don't get it, but Harry seems to slowly be catching on. I think 
Hermione will continue to be the information supplier but still on 
many levels, whether it is emotional or otherwise. She is non 
intuitive especially where the House Elves are concerned but I think 
that is purposeful on JKR's part. I think they and Hermione's 
reactions in the later books will suprise us immensely!
  
> > 8. Does Mrs. Weasley's glib mention of Scabbers suggest that 
> > she doesn't know who he really was?  If so, why not?

meriaugust said:
> She must know who he is by now, just as she knows who Sirius and 
> Lupin are, but there is no denying that Ron DID like having 
Scabbers as a pet, no matter what he said about him. Scabbers and 
Wormtail seem to often be refered to as seperate characters, and if 
I had my books with me I would look up some cannon on that (anyone 
help me there?). 
> 
Dudemom_2000 says:

I think that Mrs. Weasley knew Ron was fond of Scabbers and is 
offering him something she thinks will please him. It is also one of 
the cheaper things she can get and easily afford. I think she simply 
wants to please Ron and keep it easy on her budget. 
 
> > 9. In past discussion, Mrs. Weasley has come under a lot of fire 
> > for her behavior when she discovers that Ron has been made a 
> > prefect.  She is criticized for dismissing Fred and George 
> ('that's everyone in the family!') and for 'bribing' Ron for his 
> achievement. Do you feel that these criticisms are justified?  How 
do the revelations about Mrs. Weasley's state of mind later in the 
> chapter affect your opinion of her?  Is it possible that she's 
> overreacting to the first bit of good news she's had in a while?  
Could Mrs. Weasley's joy over Ron's selection have something to do 
with Percy?  Is she perhaps trying to recreate her lost favorite son 
in Ron?
> 
meriaugust said:
> Mrs. Weasley has seven kids, remember, and it is not uncommon for 
> people with lots of kids to sometimes forget a few of them. She 
does the same thing with Ron all the time when she gives him 
cornbeef sandwitches and maroon sweaters, neither of which he likes. 
(I know that, as one of four kids, I was forever called by the names 
of either my sister or one of my female cousins or my childhood 
> friends, and to try to get my name out of my grandmother, who has 
> sixteen grandchildren, is near impossible). And I don't think that 
> she was bribing Ron at all. She didn't seem to have had a bargain 
> with him (get made a prefect and we'll buy you a broom), it seems 
to be more of a reward, like Percy's owl. 
> 
Dudemom_2000 says:
I definitely think Mrs. Weasley has written off Fred and George for 
any sort of traditional career by now. They have shown every 
indication that they are just not bureaucrat material! I do think 
she is trying to relive Percy's success in Ron and any success in 
her children makes her very happy. She is very busy and in some ways 
doesn't know her children (i.e. the corned beef sandwich) but she is 
very concerned with their successes and their futures and I think 
that is why she behaves the way she does. I wouldn't say she is 
recreating Percy, she just has the same high hopes for Ron of 
success.

> > 10. We already know why Harry wasn't selected for Prefect, but 
> > do you feel that Ron was a good choice?  Does he truly have 
> > latent leadership qualities or did Rowling select him simply to 
> > make Harry jealous (and because, apart from Harry, he's the 
> > Gryffindor boy with whom we have the most contact)?  What do 
> > you feel might have been Dumbledore's reasons for selecting Ron 
> > as prefect?  Is he perhaps trying to guide Ron in the path of 
his older brothers?  Would another Gryffindor boy have made a better 
> > choice?
> 
meriaugust said:
> I think that Ron was a good choice. He gets decent marks, plays 
> passable Quidditch, and he has good leadership skills that have 
> manifested themselves in the chess match in SS. I think that the 
> choice of Ron for prefect was because he was not totally 
> exceptional. I always found it easier to take direction from 
someone who was an equal in certain ways, and not superior. 

Dudemom_2000 says:
I am not so sure that Ron was the best choice but Ron does have 
potential and I think this is Dumbledore's way of developing his 
talents. Ron is intimidated by the twins but he doesn't really seem 
to have difficulty doing the job otherwise. His cracks about the 
first years are certainly not appropriate but considering he is a 
younger brother, he is getting a taste of what his older brother 
must think of him! Another Gryffindore boy might have been a better 
choice but Ron and his certain development is more interesting!
  
> > 11. Is the twins' slightly malicious needling of Ron motivated 
by his Prefect badge or by their mother's fawning adoration?  What 
> > can we learn from Ron's wistful reaction at their attitude?  
Does  Ron want to be like Fred and George?  Is he?
>
meriaugust said: 
> Ron is jealous (IMHO) of the twins' popularity. He wants to b
e 
like them, and I think, would rather not be an authority figure. But 
I don't see the twins' "slightly malicious needling" as anything 
more than the actions of brothers poking fun at their younger 
sibling. 
>  
Dudemom_2000 says:

I think the twins are motiviated on both levels. They resent the 
attention of Mrs. Weasley (but only a bit) and the Prefect badge but 
it seems to be their tradition to harass whomever gets that badge in 
the family. Ron is wistful only because he wishes he were like the 
twins but he knows in his heart he is different and he spends most 
of OoP finding out who HE is (especially after the twins leave). 

> > 12. Harry's argument with himself after Ron gets the prefect's 
> badge, and his decision to be happy for Ron, are a rare example of 
> emotional maturity.  One could argue that it is in fact the last 
instance of that kind of maturity until the very end of OOP, when he 
comes out of his grief long enough to feel sorry for Luna.  What is 
it about this situation that brings out the adult in Harry?  Does it 
have something to do with the GoF Rift, and his perception of Ron as 
constantly being in his shadow?  Why does Harry find himself 
incapable of exercising this same kind of introspection and maturity 
at other points during OOP?  
> 
meriaugust said:
> Harry is, after all is said and done, a fifteen year old boy. To 
> expect him to be totally emotionally mature at this age, and in 
his situation, is, IMHO, not realistic. With all that he has been 
> through, it is easy to see how hos anger and sadness could easily 
> temporarily cloud his emotional development. That Harry could find 
> it in himself twice that year to look beyond himself and think of 
> Ron and Luna before himself is something to be proud of. As I said 
> before, Harry will grow up eventually, and it is these 
imperfections in his character that make him such an interesting 
hero. 

Dudemom_2000 says:
I definitely agree that Harry is all of a fifteen year old boy. He 
is inconsistant and at the whims of his emotions. He also has a lot 
on his plate so to speak so he really doesn't have the wherewithal 
to have introspection and maturity at points. He does find he can be 
happy for Ron because he knows that Ron is in his shadow and that it 
bothers Ron and I think that the GoF rift played heavily into this. 
Harry sees that it would make Ron happy for Harry to show his 
pleasure at Ron's success. Harry feels sorry for Luna because on 
some levels he identifies with her. She is different and he finds he 
learns from her since she seems to be able to deal with her 
situations. 
> 
>Snip> 
>  
> > 16. Does Mrs. Weasley's Boggart really conjure the image of both 
> > twins dead together?  What does this tell us about her 
perception of the twins?  What does it tell us about JKR's?  
> I think that she (and maybe to some extent the readers) see the 
> twins as a single entity, one person divided up between to bodies. 

meriaugust said:
> Whether this is common for twins or not I don't know, but it does 
> strike me as strange that the two of them don't seem to have any 
> seperate interests. 
> 
 Dudemom_2000

I do think Mrs. Weasley and we are led to believe that the twins 
are "one entity" yet when in the Quiddich match fight George manages 
to get at Malfoy with Harry. At that point the twins and separated 
for the first time. The twin's strength is in their unity, which is 
how they have gotten away with so much over the years.

>Snip> 
> Meri submits her answers for discussion.

Dudemom_2000

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