CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Chapter 9, and a NEW Flint!!!

[serenadust]

No: HPFGUIDX 88531

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "abigailnus" <abigailnus at y...> 
wrote:
> Chapter 9 - The Woes of Mrs. Weasley
> 
> Discussion Questions:
> 
> 1. How common do you think Muggle-baiting is?  Arthur's 
> statement that it might strike some people as funny suggests 
> that this is perhaps an attitude that he's encountered in the 
> past.  Arthur has been criticized as viewing Muggles in a 
> patronizing, condescending manner ("Bless them!" is most 
> often cited as an example of this attitude).  Does the fact that 
> he seems to have an awareness of his society's troublesome 
> attitudes towards Muggles counter that claim?  Does Arthur's 
> statement shed a new light on him? 

I'm not sure the statement sheds a new light on Arthur so much as it 
just reaffirms (for me, anyway) the impression that his attitudes 
toward protecting muggles are deeper and more heart-felt than he's 
often given credit for.  Remember how angry he was at the twins for 
getting Dudley to eat the ton-tongue toffee?  We rarely see Arthur 
be anything but somewhat amused at the twins antics, but at this 
point he's really upset because he interprets their actions as 
muggle-baiting.  I suppose it's possible to interpret his benevolent 
protectiveness as being a bit condescending. but considering his 
very limited contact with the Muggle world, he seems to have a great 
deal of respect for all they can do without magic.



 
> 2.  Arthur's statement that Lucius Malfoy was trying to sneak 
> into the courtroom is presumably a misdirection on JKR's part.  
> The corridor in which Harry and Arthur find him is the one 
> leading to the Department of Mysteries - was he perhaps 
> trying to sneak in?  What business does Lucius have with Fudge?

I think that the text implies that Fudge is in Malfoy's pocket.  It 
may not be that he accepts direct bribes from Lucius (although we 
can't rule that out), but politicians have been known reward wealthy 
benefactors without actually receiving cash payments.  I believe 
that Lucius gets all the information he wants from Fudge without 
ever having to resort to an Unforgivable Curse.




> 4. There's a distinct note of bitterness in Arthur's voice when 
> he speaks of Lucius Malfoy and especially of his money.  Money 
> has always been a delicate issue around the Weasleys.  We 
> know that Ron is embarrassed by his family's poverty, that Mrs. 
> Weasley, when she breaks down momentarily at the beginning 
> of GoF, expresses her frustration at her family's financial 
> situation, and that Percy threw the money issue in his father's 
> face during the row the precipitated his leaving home.  Does 
> Arthur's tone of voice suggest that, despite his ideological 
> reasons, he regrets choosing a lifestyle that isn't financially 
> rewarding?  Does his resentment of Malfoy have financial 
> underpinnings?

No, I believe that any bitterness Arthur feels toward Lucius 
Malfoy's money is connected to his feeling that Malfoy's wealth has 
kept him insulated from being held accountable for his crimes, past 
and present.  Money is always a delicate issue for people who don't 
have enough of it. However, I think that barring the injustices in 
the WW which allow someone like Malfoy to walk free, Arthur is at 
peace with his choices.


 

> 7. Hermione's analysis of Sirius is the first instance of many in 
> OOP in which she acts as Harry's emotional interpreter.  Why do 
> you feel Rowling gave this role to Hermione?  Is it because she's 
> a girl, and therefore more mature than either Harry or Ron at 
> this point, or is it because Hermione has traditionally held the 
> position of  information supplier in the Trio?  Do you believe 
> that Hermione will continue in this role in later books, or will 
> Harry develop emotional instincts of his own?  How does this 
> acuity of Hermione's reflect on the usual perception of her as 
> a non-intuitive person (as opposed to Luna, for example, who 
> is usually held up as an example of an intuitive female)?

Hermione isn't entirely without intuition before OOP, but as far as 
her interpretations of Sirius' behavior go I think that she very 
much agrees with Molly Weasley.  In fact, there seem to be more 
similarities between Hermione and Molly in OOP than I would ever 
have expected before I read it.  Of course, she is more mature at 15 
(or 16) than Ron and Harry are, but I'm confident that Harry will 
develop his own emotional instincts in the remaining books.  
Hermione isn't *always* right (although OOP tempts the reader to 
believe she is), and I expect there will be a day of reckoning in 
book 6 or 7 when everyone will realize it.  Personally, I truly 
can't wait for that to happen since "little Miss Perfect" rather got 
on my nerves in OOP <vbg>! 
 
> 8. Does Mrs. Weasley's glib mention of Scabbers suggest that 
> she doesn't know who he really was?  If so, why not?

She surely knows the story of Peter Pettigrew by OOP.  I think that 
with everything else that's going on, it's not a big deal for her to 
note that Ron was very fond of his pet, and to ask if he'd like 
another.  That Scabbers=Pettigrew isn't really relevant to her point.


 
> 9. In past discussion, Mrs. Weasley has come under a lot of fire 
> for her behavior when she discovers that Ron has been made a 
> prefect.  She is criticized for dismissing Fred and George 
('that's 
> everyone in the family!') and for 'bribing' Ron for his 
achievement.  
> Do you feel that these criticisms are justified? 

Not really.  It's canon that Fred and George have caused more 
trouble than all the other children combined.  It's no secret that 
they've rejected her best efforts at guiding them toward the sort of 
future their older brothers have chosen, so I think that it's a bit 
much to expect her to tiptoe around their tender ::snort::, 17 year-
old, of-age-in-the-WW feelings. I suppose she could have been more 
specific and said 'that's everyone (of those who actually care about 
such things) in the family!' but that's just a bit awkward IMO when 
everyone already knows what she means.

As for 'bribing" Ron for getting the Prefect Badge, how is it 
possible to "bribe" someone after the fact?  The broomstick was 
a "reward", not a bribe, and it's what good parents often do when 
their children display behavior they want to encourage. 


 How do the 
> revelations about Mrs. Weasley's state of mind later in the 
chapter 
> affect your opinion of her?  Is it possible that she's 
overreacting 
> to the first bit of good news she's had in a while?  Could Mrs. 
> Weasley's joy over Ron's selection have something to do with 
> Percy?  Is she perhaps trying to recreate her lost favorite son in 
Ron?

I think that Molly is probably the member of the Order who has the 
most to lose, and carries the most stress of anyone at Grimmauld 
Place.  I don't know that her reaction to Ron's news is any more of 
an overreaction than her reaction to Percy becoming a prefect in 
CoS. I really doubt that she's trying to recreate Percy in Ron at 
this late date.  In fact, she's probably trying to figure out where 
she went wrong with Percy and second-guessing his upbringing.


> 10. We already know why Harry wasn't selected for Prefect, but 
> do you feel that Ron was a good choice?  Does he truly have 
> latent leadership qualities or did Rowling select him simply to 
> make Harry jealous (and because, apart from Harry, he's the 
> Gryffindor boy with whom we have the most contact)?  What do 
> you feel might have been Dumbledore's reasons for selecting Ron 
> as prefect?  Is he perhaps trying to guide Ron in the path of his 
> older brothers?  Would another Gryffindor boy have made a better 
> choice?

I think that Rowling is beginning to bring Ron out of the second-
best spot in which he, the other characters (and the reader) have 
been led to believe he will always reside.  His leadership qualities 
were showcased in book one, but have been eclipsed by Harry's 
achievements and his own self-doubt ever since.  In spite of what 
Dumbledore told Harry, I think he chose Ron for good reasons of his 
own.  And no, no other Gryffindor boy would have come close to being 
as good a choice, particularly considering what's coming in their 
final years at Hogwarts.


> 11. Is the twins' slightly malicious needling of Ron motivated by 
> his Prefect badge or by their mother's fawning adoration?  What 
> can we learn from Ron's wistful reaction at their attitude?  Does 
> Ron want to be like Fred and George?  Is he?

I think that the twins' have a deep-seated, long standing disrespect 
for Percy and his values and it's almost a reflex with them to react 
against *anything* which reminds them of him.  Both the Prefect 
Badge and Molly's happy reaction are ideal triggers for this.  Poor 
Ron has devoted so much energy to trying not to be like Percy that 
he has (up till now) failed to allow himself to develop his own 
talents and follow his own path.  I think that the only thing about 
Fred and George that Ron really wants is their utter self 
confidence.  Otherwise, no, I don't think he really has any desire 
to be like Fred and George.


> 12. Harry's argument with himself after Ron gets the prefect's 
badge, 
> and his decision to be happy for Ron, are a rare example of 
emotional 
> maturity.  One could argue that it is in fact the last instance of 
that 
> kind of maturity until the very end of OOP, when he comes out of 
his 
> grief long enough to feel sorry for Luna.  What is it about this 
> situation that brings out the adult in Harry?  Does it have 
something 
> to do with the GoF Rift, and his perception of Ron as constantly 
being 
> in his shadow?  Why does Harry find himself incapable of 
exercising 
> this same kind of introspection and maturity at other points 
during 
> OOP?  

It's because Harry knows deep down, how much Ron cares for him, and 
that Ron is still the person he values most.  I think that Ron has 
resolved his problems which helped cause the Rift in GoF, and that 
the Ron/Harry friendship is stronger as a result.  Harry, however 
still needs to work toward overcoming his shortcomings.  People 
don't mature in a completely linear fashion, and I think that JKR 
has shown us these glimmers of "adult Harry" as a way of introducing 
the transition he's slowly making to adulthood.


> 17. Is Mrs. Weasley really reassured, or has she simply regained 
> her composure enough to feel embarrassed?  Why is she so 
> ashamed of her fear, and why doesn't she want her husband told 
> about it?  Do you think we'll be seeing more of Mrs. Weasley's 
> woes?  Do you think she'll be able to handle the stress of the 
> coming war?

I don't believe that Mrs. Weasley feels truly reassured.  There have 
been many posts in the past concerning the WW's "warrior" culture, 
and I think that Molly is very embarrassed at letting her facade 
crack.  In addition to that, the boggart has now revealed all her 
deepest fears to everyone in the house which is probably the last 
thing she wants.  She knows that it will do the Order and her loved 
ones no good to know her worries, and she particularly doesn't 
want to add to the burdens Arthur carries.  Harry seems to 
understand her feelings completely.  It'll be interesting to see how 
she will cope with the coming events and I hope she'll be able to 
survive.  Rowling has written her as a very strong character and I 
think that strength will be tested to it's limits.

Great questions, Abigail!  Thanks for pulling this together.

As for the FLINT, it's actually more of an editing error, but it 
appears in both the British and the American editions in this 
chapter.

..A few moments passed; Harry [heard the door close] but remained 
bent double, listening; the only sounds he could hear were the blank 
picture on the wall sniggering again and the wastepaper basket in 
the corner coughing up the owl droppings.

He straightened up and looked behind him.  Hermione and Hedwing had 
gone.  Harry hurried across the room, [closed the door], then 
returned slowly to his bed and sank onto it, gazing unseeingly at 
the foot of the wardrobe.  

OOP, Chapter 9, page 166 (US edition), page 151 (Bloomsbury edition)

Harry is closing a door which Hermione already closed in the 
paragraph before.  I was sure someone else must have spotted this 
but I've searched all the posts since June 21 as well as the Lexicon 
and the OOP FAQ and have found no mention of it anywhere.

Do you think that if I write JKR pointing this out, she'll hire me 
to proofread Book 6?

Jo Serenadust, thinking it's worth a shot