Time travel is dangerous! (part 1)

[Helen]

No: HPFGUIDX 88792

wrote:
> > Neri wrote:
> > It is even possible that DD himself sent Ron, the 
> > young version of himself, to the past in order to become DD and 
> carry 
> > out this special mission.
> > 
> > vmonte responds:
> > 
> > I like the idea of Ron having a special mission but I'm not sure 
I 
> > understand the theory that you are allowed to go back in time as 
> long 
> > as you do not change anything?  Why go back in the first place 
> unless 
> > you want to change something? 
> > 
> 
> Neri answers:
> Well <tries to recall where this argument was left. Ah, yes>  
because 
> in the frame of the "What's Done Is Done" (WDID) theory, you are 
> allowed to "help the past along its way", even though you are not 
> allowed to change it. So if you detected a suspicious hole in a 
plot 
> that went in the right direction for you, you might want to go 
back 
> and plug it.
> 
> For example, DD had witnessed that Buckbeak had disappeared before 
> the execution, and he probably had a shrewd guess who was 
responsible 
> for that, so he sent Harry and Hermione to the past to carry it 
out.
> 
> A more accurate (but more confusing) way to look at it is that the 
> hole must plug itself, because it *was* plugged. If for example 
HRH 
> were saved from the dementors by Harry from the future, then you 
know 
> that he is destined to go back and do it. It would work (because 
it 
> did work) even if he does not know about it. But if he does know, 
he 
> may consider it a special mission, and with a bit of careful 
planning 
> he may carry it out with less damage to his future self. After 
all, 
> even if Harry knows his future self will be there just in time to 
> save his past self, he does not know what will happen to his 
future 
> self a second *after* that. The future Harry might still be 
attacked 
> from behind by another gang of dementors and be finished off 
before 
> he has the time to call the patronous back. So it is always a good 
> idea to plan ahead (or in whatever direction...).
> 
> If this is still confusing, try my extensive explanation in the 
> original post (#88636).
> 
> Neri

Helen (LizardLaugh):

I am not sure you *can* change the past. PoA would suggest that you 
can't. Ix and I thought perhaps Ron/DD may have changed something in 
GoF... but I dunno (gotta re-work that thought). After reading 
Troell's essay, I would like to think that JKR will be consistent 
with the time travel (whereas before, I thought the PoA model messed 
with the whole choice theme). So... whatever Ron does as Dumbledore 
is whatever he did as Dumbledore, even if he conciously tries to 
change something, it won't be changed because that is exactly what 
happened in the first place, unbeknownst to him. This is, of course, 
assuming JKR is consistant with the model she set up in PoA. 

As for Dumbledore sending Ron back on a mission... no, I don't think 
so at this point, at least, not in a way where he gives Ron any real 
knowledge. My bet is that it will be an accident. My main reason for 
thinknig this is the Prophecy... Dumbledore seems genuinely 
surprised by it. So far, Harry hasn't told Ron about it, and if the 
Ron=DD theory is correct, he can't. Unless those brains or the 
Oblivious Ointment to fix the damage screws with his brain. Maybe 
THAT is why Dumbledore needs the Penseive, lol. 

Compare and contrast:

Dumbledore on Divination and Trelawney --

"On a cold, wet night sixteen years ago, in a room above the bar at
the Hog's Head inn. I had gone there to see an applicant for the 
post of Divination teacher,though it was against my inclination to 
allow the subject of Divination to continue at all. The applicant, 
however, was the great-great granddaughter of a very famous, very 
gifted Seer and I thought it common politeness to meet her. I was 
disappointed. It seemed to me that she had not a trace of the gift 
herself. I told her, courteously I hope, that I did not think she 
would be suitable for the post. I turned to leave."

Ron on Trelawney, Dumbledore and Divination -- 

"Bet Dumbledore wishes he could've got rid of Trelawney for good," 
said Ron, now munching on his fourteenth Frog. "Mind you, the whole 
subject's useless if you ask me, Firenze isn't a lot better..."

Why Harry doesn't tell the kids about the Prophecy:

Harry's heart began to race. He had not told Ron, Hermione or anyone 
else what the prophecy had contained. Neville had told them it had 
smashed while Harry was pulling him up the steps in the Death Room 
and Harry had not yet corrected this impression. He was not ready to 
see their expressions when he told them that he must be either 
murderer or victim, there was no other way.

I find Harry's reasoning painfully ironic, since his reasons for not 
telling Ron and Hermione are similar to Dumbledore's. Ron knows 
there is a Prophecy... he just doesn't know what is about, who said 
it or who heard it. So even though Dumbledore knows a lot, his 
knowledge is limited to what Ron knows. Therefore, I think if 
Dumbledore *did* send Ron back in time on purpose, he would tell Ron 
about the Prophecy, considering how much pain it caused.