Vampire/Half Vampire/Schvampire -was all the other vampire Snape stuff

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 88804

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jakedjensen" <jakejensen at h...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" 
> <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> Kneasy:
> > 1.  Please state concisely your definition of a vampire. 
> > 2.  List, with canon references, where Snape actually corresponds 
> >      to these.
> 
> 
> I have to admit, I never really think of it in this way.  As I posted 
> previously, I think (1) there have been a lot of vampire refs in the 
> books and (2) some point to Snape.  But, in the spirit of it all, 
> here goes....
>
> Here's what we know about vampires from the canon:
> 1. Some live in the forest outside Hogwarts.  Ergo, vampires must 
> like some connection with the forest (maybe it's just a good place to 
> eat or hide or live...something).
> 2. Quirrell believes that garlic scares them away (or Fred and George 
> do, at very least).
> 3.  There are vampire bats.  It is not clear if these are vampires 
> turned into bats or just vampire bats (As you have pointed out). 
> 

Hmm. This confirms my thoughts on how the different groups are
approaching this bone of  contention. 

I'll try and keep this as general as possible and use some of your
and my points as examples of ways of analysing the case rather
than as clubs to beat the opposition into submission.

When the thread first crawled from the primeval ooze that is the
collective conciousness of the membership, I asked myself six
questions:

1. What is a vampire in the WW  of JKR?
2. Which of the attributes that JKR ascribes to her vampires can be
    directly applied to Snape?
3. Is there vampire canon that can be *interpreted* as *perhaps*
    applicable to Snape.
4. Are there generally accepted, non-canon vampire characteristics
    (i.e. from other fantasy fiction) that fit Snape?
5. Any other pointers available that may give guidance?
6. Is there an identifiable plot thread that requires or is enhanced
    by a Snape!Vampire revelation?

Reasonable questions on which to base an opinion, IMO.

Answers I  came up  with:

1. A blank. JKR has never described her vampires.
2. Not applicable since 1. is unknown
3. Very little to get our teeth into. We just don't know what a vampire
    is or how it behaves in the Potterverse.
4. Not really; he doesn't seem to match the general fantasy profile of
    a daylight avoiding, coffin dwelling blood-sucker.
5. Questionable. A lot will depend on interpretation and extrapolation.
6. Apparently not; or at least  not yet.

It seems to me that all the argy-bargy has been based on points 4. &
(particularly) 5. We all accept that JKR can do what she pleases, but
on the vampire question she has done nothing to lighten our darkness.

Any disagreement so far with my methodology?

So, the discussion has boiled down to whether or not there is a non-
canon vampire lore that Snape could match (a largely academic point,
since JKR tends to devise her own constructs according to her own
needs without requiring the services of others, thank you very much)
and the interpretation of what little we do have.

And the interpretation  can be critical, as is demonstrated by your
reference to vampires in the forest at Hogwarts.

The actual passage you're thinking of, is (I think) from PS/SS:

"...but he took a year off ter get some first-hand experience...They
say he met vampires in the Black Forest and there was a nasty bit
o' trouble with a hag..."

I  didn't interpret this the same way as you seem to have done.
I took it to mean the *actual* Black Forest - the massive one in 
Germany, not the Forbidden Forest on Hogwarts doorstep. 
Reasons?
Well, Quirrell would hardly need a year off if he was just nipping past
Hagrid's hut to get experience, and the real Black Forest has a nasty 
mythological reputation, it's where all those dark Germanic fairy-tales
tend to be based - goblins, evil witches and the like.
Additionally, later in  the same volume, when they all troop  off  to
do their detention with Hagrid, Malfoy says that  he has heard that
there are all sorts of things, like werewolves in there. No mention of
vampires, though I suspect he would have if they were there.

Your second point about Quirrell and garlic I interpreted as a hang-
over from his scare in the Black Forest, paranoia if you like and not 
specifically aimed at Snape. Interpretation again.

The third point about vampire bats is a bit loose IMO. 
Vampire bats have been used as an hint or clue to the presence of
vampires in other fantasies by other  writers. JKR has mentioned them
but we  don't know what they mean, if anything. True, it can be 
considered as suggestive that it was the Transylvanian Quidditch 
captain that released them when they are mammals native to 
S.America only. So the reasoning might go - vampire bats plus
Transylvania = Vampire alert. It's the sort of hint that I'd prefer to
hold in abeyance and use as a supporting clue to firmer evidence. 

It's all in the interpretation. The same goes for your more extended list.
Now I don't necessarily expect you to agree with my conclusions, your
interpretations are your own, but I hope you can see why I and others
express doubts; it's an alternative reading of the same words.

And it will not be resolved until JKR decides to give a bit more page
space to *her* vampires.

Kneasy