From the other side : Part 1 : Zacharias Smith and other lambda students
Doriane
delwynmarch at yahoo.com
Fri Jan 16 10:53:32 UTC 2004
No: HPFGUIDX 88888
Hi Geoff, and thanks for the answer !
First off, a quote from the end of your post :
> I think you are playing devil's advocate.
Ah bah, yes :-) That's *exactly* what I'm doing :-) ! I'm sorry, but
I got sick of hearing "Harry is so wonderful and the rest of the WW
is nuts for not worshipping him" (okay, I AM exaggerating, I admit ;-
), so I decided I'd try to show that Harry might be annoying for who
doesn't know him well.
> The only rule quoted is that first years may not bring
> their own broomsticks.
And I think the main reason they can't bring their own broomsticks is
that they won't need them to play on the Quidditch team anyway.
Because as you reminded us later :
> Conversation with Ron -
> "'Seeker?' he said. 'But first years never - you must be the
> youngest house player in about -'
> '- a century,'said Harry"
>
> I presume that first year's never make the team because they lack
> the ability at that point. There is no suggestion here that it is
> against the rules.
I disagree with your conclusion that first-years don't ever make the
team because they lack the ability. Harry didn't, for example, and
I'm sure there were quite a few others over the past century who were
both very talented and very well trained when they went to Hogwarts
(James comes to my mind...). They could very easily have made it to
the team. But they weren't allowed to bring their broomsticks and to
do the try-outs. It's a case of the snake eating its own tail : first-
years can't bring their own broomsticks so they can't play Quidditch,
and since they can't play Quidditch they don't need to have their
broomsticks anyway ! So I think there's an official rule that first-
years aren't allowed to bring their broomsticks, as well as an
officious rule that they aren't allowed to make the team, with their
own broomstick or with a school one (which Harry's is technically, by
the way : he didn't buy it, it was offered to him by McGonagall if I
remember well, so one could argue that it belongs to the school). So
as a conclusion : a special case was made for Harry, and for him
only, which is totally unfair.
> Del:
> > Then let's get at the end of the first year. Everything was going
> > fine, everyone was quite okay by now with Harry. Hey, he'd even
> > been put into detention once ! And then bam ! He gets into some
> > kind of troubles, nobody knows what exactly (that's very
> > important : the kids do NOT know anything about Quirrellmort and
> > the Philosophical Stone), but a teacher gets killed in the
> > process.
>
> Geoff:
> Canon again -
>
> "Harry swallowed and looked around him. He realised he must be in
> the hospital wing. He was lying in a bed with white linen sheets
> and next to him was a table piled high with what looked like half
> the sweet-shop.
> 'Tokens from your friends and admirers,' said Dumbledore,
> beaming. 'What happened down in the dungeons between you and
> Porfessor Quirrell is a complete secret, so, naturally, the whole
> school knows.'"
>
> (PS "The man with two faces" p.214 UK edition)
Okay, you got me on that one :-) But if you don't mind me nit-
picking, you'll notice that all that the kids know was brought to
them through rumors. DD admits that the kids weren't given any
official version of what happened. So who knows *what* the kids
actually believe happened ?! How much do they know ? Weren't the
facts distorted in the rumor-spreading process ? How many different
versions of the events are being passed around ? That's important,
because later on, those same students that admired Harry so much at
the time, might actually start to wonder how much of what they were
told was actually true. If they hear different, maybe even opposing
versions, they might start doubting the whole thing, or finding other
explanations, in which Harry is not so much the hero anymore.
> Del:
> > In the fourth year, Harry once again is granted an enormous
> > privilege, when he is allowed to participate in the Triwizard
> > Tournament despite being too young. Most kids probably changed
> > their mind after the First Task, as Ron did, but still...
>
> Geoff:
> He /had/ to participate because the rules stated that anyone whose
> name came out of the Goblet could not withdraw.
>
> "'Finally, I wish to impress upon you wishing to compete that this
> Tournament is not to be entered into lightly. Once a champion had
> been selected by the Goblet of Fire, he or she is obliged to see
> the Tournament through to the end. The placing of your name in the
> Goblet constitutes a binding, magical contract. There can be no
> change of heart once you have become champion.'"
>
> (GOF "The Goblet of Fire" PP.225-6 UK edition)
You didn't get my point. You seem to consider that this contract is a
bad thing for Harry. In Harry's eyes, it is. But in the other
Hogwarts students eyes, it's not ! It's actually very convenient for
Harry, in their idea : he broke the rule, but because of this
contract, he is still allowed to participate ! You have to remember
that up until the First Task, A LOT of students wish they could be
one of the champions (remember that French girl who broke down in
crying fits when Fleur's name came out ?). So for many Hogwarts
students, Harry was not only lucky to have been chosen, but he was
also obviously favoured by DD, since he wasn't punished for breaking
the rule and entering his name ! (Very few people believed at first
that Harry didn't enter his name : Ron didn't, the twins didn't, even
DD had doubts...)
> Harry has probably talked about his home - att eh first feast after
> the Sorting Ceremony, we are told that talk turned to families and
> certainly the majority of Gryffindor seem to be on his side.
First of all, I have to say that I'm getting very cautious when
people say "Harry probably did this or that". I would assume, for
example, that Harry probably researched things about his family.
Well, obviously he didn't. When it comes to Harry, I've come to
expect very unusual behaviour.
So to say that Harry probably talked about his home doesn't carry
much weight for me. He talked about them all right, probably said
they weren't too nice with him and such, but I'm not sure he revealed
neither how badly the Dursleys mistreated him nor the extent of his
ignorance of the WW.
Gryffindor would know more than the other Houses, at least because
Ron and Hermione might have spread Harry's story a bit, but we're not
sure how much the other Houses really know about Harry. I seem to
remember that in CoS, one of the Hufflepuffs tells Harry that he
might want to kill all the Muggle-born students because he doesn't
like the Muggles he grew up with, so obviously some of Harry's story
filtered around, but how much exactly, we don't know for sure.
> One also gets the impression that the DA members began to
> appreciate his qualities in instructing them as time went on.
That's one of the points I'm trying to convey : Harry is okay, *once
you've made the effort to know him*. But even the DA were unsure of
him at first. Harry has a great charismatic potential, but he doesn't
make any effort to develop it. He systematically waits for other
people to come and get to know him. And even then, he still sometimes
sends them packing (Colin, Neville, Ginny, Luna...), or doesn't play
fair-game with them (he lies to DD, keeps things from Ron and
Hermione, etc...)
> And if there is anyone (other than the Slytherins perhaps) who
> think the Dolores Umbridge is the first apparently sane and
> impartial person in power to come to the school, they either have
> led a very sheltered life or ought to be out looking for the
> marbles they have lost.
As an aside : many students have actually probably led a very
sheltered life. Those kids are the post-War kids, the precious ones,
the sheltered ones.
Moreover, most of the students don't know DD personally, and have to
judge him on his acts and words, and well... Let's be honest : to
someone who doesn't him, DD doesn't necessarily seem very sane nor
safe. He is powerful, but he's also completely unpredictable and
quite lunatic. For example, he did let potentially dangerous teachers
come to Hogwarts. Not to mention all the incompetent ones, which
Umbridge intends to dismiss.
Dolores Umbridge : you have to know her to realise who she truly is.
Harry got on her bad side right away, but not everyone did. Many
students had actually no reason to fear her. Many students were
probably scared the year before by Moody's violent methods in DADA
classes, and got only more insecure with the whole matter of the
death of Cedric and LV's hypothetic return. So when Umbridge arrived,
preaches peace and non-violence, and delivering reassuring speeches
about the non-existence of LV, well, I guess she must have attracted
quite a few students. I remember how it was when I was a teenager : I
wanted excitement allright, but on my own terms, when *I* decided it.
The rest of the time, I wanted my world to be safe and peaceful.
And for any student who was not on her bad side, I'm sure Umbridge
was quite nice. After all, who do we know for sure got into trouble
with her ? Harry, the twins, Lee Jordan : all trouble-makers. The
teachers didn't like her, but then the staff works much more closely
with the Headmaster than the students do, so they would know better.
So I honestly don't think that only the Slytherins liked Umbridge : I
suspect quite a few other students from all Houses must have liked
her too. She was apparently trying to bring peace, order and better
quality to the place : a lot of teenagers crave that.
Del
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