Harry the Auror

[Doriane]

No: HPFGUIDX 89103

"frost_indri" wrote:

> For those interested in the question and not the debate,

I'm very interested in the debate, too bad I wasn't on the net this 
week-end. I hope it's not too late to voice my opinion ?

About the Crucio curse Harry tried to use on Bellatrix :

sachmet96 :
> > But what it comes down to is that Harry tried to kill someone at 
> > the age of 15. I don't think such a thing can be overlooked. 
 
Frost:
> 	  No, he didn't. He just tried to hurt someone very badly.  
> Crucio is not the same as a AK.  The difficulty is still that he 
> tried to use an unforgivable, but was unable to.

Now me Del :

I don't have my books with me, but from what I remember, Harry didn't 
mean to kill Bellatrix, he wanted to hurt her, to make her suffer as 
he was suffering from Sirius's death. It was hurt and anger that 
motivated him to use the Crucio curse. It's a very natural reaction, 
very human, and very dangerous. I used to react the same way when I 
was a kid, until I destroyed a prized possession of mine in a fit 
of "righteous" rage. I must have been nine I think, but I realised 
then that I could do something really bad someday if I didn't learn 
to control myself. And it's the same for Harry : he has to realise 
that he can't keep reacting with his guts only. If he does learn 
that, he can become good Auror material. If he doesn't, there's no 
way he can be entrusted with so much power and authority.

Sachmet96 :
> He also hasn't  shown any significant (magical) abilities above 
> average.
 
Frost wrote: 
> I doubt any of them, with the exception of Hermione, would be able 
> to produce a real patronus when faced with a real dementor.
 
sachmet96 :
> I do think all of them would be able to do it (or nearly all of 
> them).  
> 
Frost:
> We don't get a run-down of who can and can't do it, but not 
> everyone has it, and no one has had the chance to do it under any 
> sort of pressure, other that peir pressure.
> Of course, they could surprise me. <grins> we'll see. ^_^

Now me Del :

First of all, thank you Sachmet !! I'm so glad to see that someone 
else thinks that Harry doesn't display any super-magic. I can't help 
but wonder where people get their opinion that Harry is so much 
better at magic than everyone else. He has talent, sure, but many 
others do too (including Hermione, no matter what she says), and many 
others work much more than he does.

And as far as the Patronuses (Patroni ?) go, I'd like to remind that 
Harry didn't manage to produce a good real one until the Lake Attack. 
And even then, he only managed to produce it because he already knew 
he would manage. During Lupin's lessons, he sure learned to produce 
something, but it was feeble enough that neither he nor Lupin could 
identify the stag.

Frost wrote:
>  He has leadership skills, and can work well on a team.  
 
> sachmet96
> I also disagree here. He only works well with a team of his 
> choosing  and his leadership skills worked reasonably well for a 
> team of his choosing too but that doesn't say anything how it will 
> be with  others. 
 
Frost: 
>  	Actually, the only "team members" he chose out of the ones 
> he lead to the Department of Mysteries were Ron and Hermione.  
> Ginny, Luna, and Neville were not his choices at all.

Now me Del :

Well Frost, I'm afraid that remark of yours isn't a very good point 
for Harry ;-), as it proves that Harry is not a team person. He is 
offered help, and as always he won't take it. But one could of course 
argue that he was worried for their life, which is quite a noble 
cause of course.

Frost again :
>  	 However, he still took them (not his choice really) and he 
> lead them.  And they followed.  He was the clear leader in the 
> Department of Mysteries,

Del :

He was the leader because he was the only one who had any idea where 
they were supposed to be going.

Frost :

> and he took responsibility for them in his action after he realized 
> he had been tricked.  Being tricked isn't a sign of bad leadership, 
> just a sign of bad thinking, or good thinking on the part of the 
> tricker. Or both.  

Del :

And in this case it was both. I'm afraid Harry demonstrated great 
anti-leadership talents : he refused to listen to his most wise and 
trusted counselor (Hermione), he refused offered help, he refused to 
consider anyone else's suggestion (he wouldn't listen to Luna's idea 
of flying, even when she said it twice), and most of all he got angry 
every time things weren't going his way. That last point in 
particular is a definite sign of bad leadership skills.

Frost :
>  	 Also, look at the DA.  It was Hermione's idea, but he ended 
> up being the leader.

Del :

But only because Hermione made it so ! She deliberately put Harry in 
the spotlight, she had to organise a VOTE to give Harry full 
authority both in his own eyes and in the others' eyes (except Cho of 
course :-), she had to keep pushing Harry. In my opinion, Hermione 
was the natural leader of the whole DA matter, and Harry got the 
leading position precisely because SHE decided so !

Frost :
> He made the choices of curriculum, and he had 
> the ability to get their respect, even from Zecharias Smith.  And 
> even though it wasn't his idea, he did make the conscious decision 
> to lead this thing.  He would have to, if he was teaching it, and 
> teacher is a role of authority.  Frankly, he did a good job. 

Del :

Mmm, I don't know about teaching being linked to leading. I'm a 
natural teacher : I love to teach people on anything and I'm good at 
it. But I'm a disaster of a leader : I can't make decisions for other 
people, I don't believe in my judgement enough to impose it on 
others, etc... So while I agree that Harry is indeed quite a good 
teacher, I disagree that this makes him a leader.

sachmet96:
> It was shown so far that he doesn't like to work with others  but 
> is constantly trying to solve anything on his own - so he is not 
> really a team's person.
 
Frost:
>   That is a good point.  He has been resistant to trusting others, 
> esp. Authority figures.  Though, growing up with the Dursleys as 
> Authority figures, I can't blame him. *sighs* However, his 
> relationship with Ron & Hermione has caused him to trust Ron and 
> Hermione, and rely on them for help.

Del :

I have to disagree again. Harry doesn't fully rely on neither Ron nor 
Hermione. When forced to choose between his own gut feeling (which 
has often been proved wrong), and Hermione's reasoning (which has 
often been proved right), he still chose to dismiss Hermione's 
opinion and trust only his gut feeling. He hasn't learned anything. 
He trusts Ron and Hermione only if they agree with him ! If they 
don't, then they are systematically wrong and against him. After all 
they've gone through with and for him, he still doesn't fully trust 
them.

Frost :
> At this point, I will agree with you, he's too much of a loner to 
> make it.  But then, he's growing, and maybe he'll learn to rely on 
> others more in the next books.  I'd like to think so, its a trend I 
> think I see, but that is only conjecture.  

Del :

In fact, I personally think it's going to be a very big part of the 
next book. 

Thanks for the interesting debate :-)

Del