Is Snape a pureblood? (and wizard aristocracy in general)

[junediamanti]

No: HPFGUIDX 89814

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> > Sigune reflects:
> > I dunno - he doesn't particularly strike me as the aristocratic 
type; 
> > I am not sure if I can explain why not. But even if you are quite 
> > right to point out that aristocratic roots don't equal "good 
form", I 
> > feel bound to say that likewise, arrogance and hauteur do not 
> > preclude aristocracy.
> > 
> > Somehow, I have come to think of Snape as a 'self-made man', 
which 
> > one could argue is a quintessentially middle-class concept. He is 
> > ambitious and hard-working. Also, judging from what we saw in the 
> > Occlumency lessons, he seems to have sort of reinvented himself 
at 
> > one point inbetween his schooldays and the arrival of Harry at 
> > Hogwarts. - As you point out, he has gained confidence.
> > [*Question*: is there any canon evidence of his using swearwords 
> > other than in the scenes from his memory?]
> > 
> > I don't know how this sounds to other people, but it seems to me 
that 
> > Snape's arrogance is connected with the quality of his thinking 
as 
> > Hermione signalled in PS: unlike many wizards, Snape thinks 
> > logically. His arrogance stems from his impatience with people 
who 
> > make errors of logic because they don't think rationally enough 
(to 
> > his taste).
> > 
> > It also struck me that Sirius called Snape 'Lucius Malfoy's 
lapdog'. 
> > Even when he meant it as a provocation, I get the impression 
> > throughout the books that Lucius Malfoy thinks of Snape as an 
ally or 
> > supporter, but in a patronising sort of way - Malfoy is the one 
with 
> > the power to make things happen and by no means regards Snape as 
an 
> > equal, which I think he would be more likely to do if Snape were 
on 
> > an equal footing with him socially.

June:
That may be true but there is no canon evidence of Lucius being 
patronising to Snape.  Draco sucks up to Snape in a way that implies 
he at least, does not "look down" on Snape socially.

> > 
> > I entirely agree with your view of him as someone who tries hard 
to 
> > better himself in the sense that he wants to make up for an 
> > impoverished family background. His pride and confidence at 
present 
> > may be related to a sense of achievement of sorts then. But I am 
not 
> > sure that this precludes an aristocratic family. Yet again, I 
have no 
> > definite proof, and this may be a piece of "Snape-as-I-would-like-
him-
> > to-turn-out-to-be" :).
> > 
> > Yours severely,
> > 
> > Sigune
> 
> 
> Just to clarify your argument, do you mean doesn't "imply" an
> aristocratic family? "Preclude" means exclude or prevent the 
existence
> of, which I think is the opposite of your intended meaning. (I 
think I
> essentially agree with you, but I'm not quite sure.)
> 
> Thanks,
> Carol
> 
> P.S. On the subject of "aristocratic" wizards, I get the feeling 
that
> the Muggle-born Justin Finch-Fletchley comes from the *Muggle*
> aristocracy or gentry based on his name. I'm wondering if Sir 
Nicholas
> de Mimsey-Porpington's aristocratic background is a Muggle heritage 
as
> well, especially as he was the only ghost to be petrified in CoS. 
Was
> he Muggle-born like the petrified students? And totally off the
> subject, the 400 vs. 500 year discrepancy regarding Sir Nick's death
> date can be resolved by his clothing. No one wore ruffs in 1492. 
They
> were a sixteenth- (and possibly early seventeenth-) century fashion.
> Consequently his death date must be 1592, not 1492 (400, not 500,
> years before CoS).

Justin may well be smart (that means upper class here) - he was down 
for Eton after all.  However, having one's name down for Eton does 
not necessarily denote coming from the "top drawer" socially anymore, 
because money now talks and there aren't necessarily enough old 
moneyed British aristos to keep the place going.

As to double barrelled names conferring aristo status - don't believe 
it.  Anyone can double barrell their name these days, and frequently 
do.  Justin's family might well be a bunch of nouveau parvenues who 
made their money from, gasp, trade.

June