Harry Potter and the Thestrals (Re: Did Harry See Lily Die?)

[makemeatree]

No: HPFGUIDX 89846

Debbie wrote:
> First, if Harry had seen Lily die, he should have seen the 
thestrals his first year at Hogwarts.  JKR has said that some time is 
needed to *process* a death before the thestrals become visible.  I 
have no idea what she means by that, since Harry's anger in OOP 
suggest to me that while he certainly remembers what happened in the 
graveyard, he has yet to fully process it.  So I don't think it makes 
sense to argue that he hasn't processed Lily's death, or that he 
doesn't remember it.  He does have memories of it (at least from PoA 
onward), even if they are buried rather deeply.
>

joi:

I have to say my piece on the thestrals.

We know that Harry saw something of his mother's death because we 
know from the very first book that he has memories of a green light 
and screaming. It's right there in the first book. He saw 
*something*. He was there, and it is firmly embedded in his memory. 
Why then couldn't he see the thestrals? The answer also lies in the 
first book: Harry thought for all those years that his parents died 
in a car crash. If he completely remembered his mother's death, he 
wouldn't have believed for all that time that she had died in a car 
crash. We can suppose that he doubted the car crash story, but it was 
what he took to be mostly truth. Since Harry couldn't fully remember 
seeing his mother die, he wasn't able to see the thestrals. 

As for the 'process' comment, I think it fits my explanation. Baby 
Harry, although a witness to his mother's death, could not process 
that experience. He never got a chance to fully understand his 
mother's death. He was too young to understand then, and then he was 
told some crum story about a car crash for 11 years that he (at least 
partially) believed. We can say that Harry has accepted his mother's 
death, and he understands it, but with a lot of time and BS in 
between. The other examples of people who can see thestrals- Harry 
post cedric, Luna, and Neville- weren't babies when they saw the 
deaths they claim give them the ability to see the thestrals. I may 
be wrong on that, since I don't have OotP, but if I recall, Luna 
mentions the age she was when he mother died, and it was young, but 
not a baby. I don't believe Neville gives an age, but, judging by the 
way he talks about it, as well as who it was (his grandfather), he 
couldn't have been a baby, either.

Debbie also wrote: 
> The second reason is that the memories that the Dementors bring to 
the surface are only audio memories.  Harry tells Lupin that he can 
*hear* Voldemort murdering Lily.  There are no visuals to go with it, 
although he does have visual memories of his own encounter with 
Voldemort, which are described in ch. 2 of PS/SS.  While there is 
more than one possible explanation of this, one is that Harry simply 
didn't see the murder.  Maybe it was dark.  Maybe she had gone out of 
the room to head off Voldemort.  Either way, I don't think Harry saw 
either the murder or a dead body.

joi:

I'll point out again that, in PS/SS, arry has a visual memory of his 
mother's death, albeit limited. I would also like to point out that 
just because Harry only has auditory memories around the dementors 
doesn't mean he doesn't have visual ones. Harry passes out when he 
first meets the dementors, and he fights and fights to keep concious 
whenever he's near them. Psychologically speaking, I believe that the 
reason Harry passes out is because his brain is workin' real hard to 
hide a memory he's kept hidden for a long, long time. I've read quite 
a few case studies of people who had traumatic experiences in their 
childhood, repressed certain memories, and would pass out whenever 
they tried to recall them. That's what I see happening to Harry, 
especially considering the dementors brought out new info on his 
parents death. Those guys dig *deep*, and Harry's brain(+heart) 
weren't going to let them get the best of him. They fought back the 
best way they knew how... they let the boy pass out. 

That's how I feel about it. 
Thanks,

joi.