The Scar. Was: Choices - or not

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 89939

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Hitomi" <japanesesearcher at y...>
wrote:
> Hey Carol and Whizbang!  I'm just going to add my tiny two pence to 
> this argument, and say that while I agree that both your points are 
> more than valid, though Whizbang, I too agree with Carol that we 
> sometimes like to take our own theories for granted, I still don't 
> particulary think Lily placed a charm on Harry, though she could 
> have.  If she did, I'm prone to think it was a combination of that, 
> the prophecy, and the old magic (a.k.a. love) that DD speaks of 
> (that LV underestimates, because he despises it, and also because he 
> doesn't understand love) that saved Harry that night.  
> 
> The prophecy, in my opinion, would only work for whichever boy LV 
> chose (hence the phrase "the one").  He chose Harry.  So when he 
> attacked that night, whatever universal clauses or magic are at work 
> concerning this prophecy, worked to have the Curse back-fired, and 
> thus, Harry marked as LV's equal.  I don't believe Harry might have 
> necessarily had the power to begin with, we don't know, though it's 
> possible.  But I do believe he has it now, because LV fulfilled that 
> element of the prophecy.  And in fulfilling it, Harry is now somehow 
> his equal, and THAT more than likely saved him that night (at least 
> that's my half-formed theory).
> 
> ~ Hitomi, who hopes Carol isn't angry, because she likes a lot of 
> her posts, though she is more inclined to see Whizbang's point :)

Carol:
Thanks, Hitomi. Of course, I'm not angry. I don't know whether there's
a charm, either, but the main point I was arguing here was that I
don't think that Harry as a fifteen-month-old baby had any
extraordinary powers (no more than Neville or Ron or Hermione at that
age). His ability to perform accidental magic appears to me to be a
consequence of the transfer of power from Voldemort and not a power he
was born with. And I certainly don't think he deliberately cast a
spell on Voldemort when he didn't even know he was a wizard and didn't
have a wand. (I also noted the normal vocablulary of a
fifteen-month-old, which does not include Avada Kedavra or
Protego--and of course there's no countercurse for AK, anyway.) As I
said, I don't know what blew up the house, but I doubt it was Harry.

My other main point is that I think whizbang is confusing the events
at Godric's Hollow with those foretold by the prophecy, which relate
(except for "mark as his equal") to things that have not yet happened
in the novel and which will not come to pass until Book 7. As I said,
the prophecy is ambiguous and I don't think any of us can safely state
that we "know" what it means or what will happen.

Thank you for at least agreeing that we shouldn't take our own
theories for granted. What I'm trying to say is that even when we list
members disagree, we should look at the evidence other people present
and consider the possibility that they may be right even if we don't
want them to be. So (I'll say this only once) hats off to Pippin for
the amount of effort he or she has put into supporting a thesis that I
can never agree with. I do at least understand what makes you think as
you do and I acknowledge that evidence exists for both sides. I'm
trying to do the same in this case, to present the evidence for a
theory that isn't even mine. (It belongs to Mandy.)

Let me say again, for the benefit of people who have expressed
confusion over what this list is about: The test of any theory is not
whether it can be proven; of course it can't or it would cease to be a
theory. The test is what sort of evidence can be presented for it. If
we're going to disagree with a theory, we owe it to the other person
to examine the evidence that person is presenting and to concede any
points that we recognize as valid. I have tried to do that, and I
encourage other people, whether they agree or disagree with me, to do
the same.

Carol, who asks Hitomi to look back over the threads of this argument.
I think she'll see that she and I agree on most of the essential
points, if not on the defense charm itself.

P.S. What I really want is for SOMEBODY to look at this argument and
back me up on a point or two, or help me unconfuse Whizbang, who
doesn't seem to understand my detailed explanations of my arguments.