Human's Emotions vs. Dogs (Re: Sirius revisited)

[Brenda M.]

No: HPFGUIDX 104209

>>> Kneasy wrote:
> But I do find it interesting that after cobbling together a long, 
not very complimentary screed on the life and times of Sirius he 
seems to have so few committed defenders. <<<


Bren now:

Well, not entirely, I just came back from exciting family trip (to 
Montreal, Mont Tremblanc and Ottawa...) and oh boy, I'm behind about 
200 posts now! But I'm back to defend my fictional sexy-beast lover, 
lol.


>>> Nora wrote: 
> > Dementors go for emotions, which are a rather different kettle of 
> > fish than thoughts and even intelligence--and unless you're going 
to be SO skeptical (tsk, tsk!) to not believe the comment that 
emotions are simpler when a dog, even if you do keep your human 
> > intelligence....well... :) Seems to me that that's a pretty clear 
piece of JKR exposition. It's possible to doubt everything, but then 
where do you end up? 

> Kneasy responds:
> Why should they be simpler? Emotions are simple - very simple.
> Anger is anger, love is love, hate is hate, fear is fear.
> What could be simpler than that?
> Now if you can demonstrate (with empirical proof) any differences 
> between human (a self-regarding animal) and dog emotions, I'll be
> happy to concede.


Bren now:

Whohoo! The Neuroscientist comes to the rescue!

I'm afraid I must correct you, Kneasy. Emotions are not simple at 
all. I must agree with Nora. The best example of how emotions are "a 
rather different kettle of fish than thoughts and even intelligence 
(Nora's words)" is the fact that human brain emits extracranial 
magnetic field in response to our emotions, but not to our 
thoughts/intelligence. Basically, emotional responses elicit human 
brain to create magnetic field outside. As conventional as it sounds, 
this is one of the most significant discoveries in 21st Century 
Neuroscience -- giving rise to brainimaging technologies such as 
Electroencephalography (EEG) and Magnetoencephalography (MEG). 
Everyday, around the world, vast number of patients depend on these, 
as pre-surgical evaluation tools for instance. The kind of brain 
functions (?) that can be detected using these brainimaging tools 
are: epilepsy, stroke, somatosensory mapping, language (both auditory 
and visual), emotion, musical hearing, etc etc.

This leads me to believe that when Dementors are sensing human 
emotions, they are sensing these extracranial magnetic fields. But 
they can't really feed on human thoughts and intelligence, if they 
could then they will be Legilimens, no? Human's cognitive functions 
operate on a "higher level" than emotions, I believe. I'm not a 
cognitive psychologist, but safe to assume that our thoughts are much 
harder to be sensed. That is my understanding of it anyways. I'm not 
too sure if JKR thought of it that way as well.
 
As for the differences between human and dog emotions, I haven't 
studied other animals extensively so I can't give you any conclusive 
proof – but I can suspect this much. Emotions are very closely 
related to memory and learning. That is to say, every new memory or 
learning that we obtain, a certain kind/ "shade" of emotions is 
attached. This phenomenon makes it crucial for our own survival, and 
thus it makes sense that mammalian limbic system before neocortex. 

Mammalian brain evolved in 3 different stages (`Triune brain')
1. Archipallium – basic cell preservation & maintenance, homeostasis, 
balance/ posture, eye movements

2. Paleopallium (limbic system) – emotional responses, motivation, 
Circadian rhythm, learning & memory, hunger & thirst, association of 
experiences with environment/ situations, fear & aggression

3. Neopallium (new cortex) – higher cognitive functions, 
intelligence, problem-solving skills
(Why developed? – if our every action was driven by homeostatic 
regulations and emotional mechanisms only, we would have problems 
solving our basic needs, putting us at risk.)

Going back to Dementors and how Sirius escaped them, he 
says "[Dementors] feel their way towards people by sensing their 
EMOTIONS
 they could tell that my feelings are less – LESS HUMAN, 
less complex when I was a dog" (PoA, 272. UK – emphasis mine). Notice 
that Sirius says "less COMPLEX", not "my feelings are gone". 
Recalling the fact that emotions are attached to memory and learning, 
I think it is implies that animals' feelings are less complex because 
their abilities to store (new) memories and learning are not as well-
developed as humans'. Dogs can't learn or obtain new information as 
efficiently as humans, and therefore they have far more primitive and 
basic range of emotions. 

Does this answer your question, Kneasy? Or have I confused you even 
more? I'll be more than happy to elaborate on this if you like, just 
let me know.

Bren